Gauge calibrated??

Scrapper1 · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 17, 2008, 07:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MCBear

we do not have that reference to fall back on. We don't bounce the ball to see if it will come up to a predetermined height since we would have to have gauged it anyway to find out WHERE that height would be.

Please bear with me. Ok, we have to gauge it anyway. But let's just say we gauge a ball at 4.3 PSI and we gauge a second ball at 4.6 PSI.

Now we drop each ball from a height of 6 six feet. The first ball bounces (for the sake of example) to a height of 4 feet six inches. The second ball bounces to a height of 4 feet 10 inches.

Don't we now know that any volleyball that bounces to a height of 4'6" when dropped from 6 feet is a legal ball? Further, don't we know that any ball that bounces anywhere between 4'6" and 4'10" is a legal ball?

What conditions could change the allowable bounce? And if there are none, why then gauge it every time?

FMadera · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 17, 2008, 08:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

What conditions could change the allowable bounce? And if there are none, why then gauge it every time?

I'd say a brand new, harder, ball will bounce higher than a worn out, softer ball.

One floor might be a little softer than another. Synthetic court will yield a different bounce than a wood court.

I think you get the point.

Scrapper1 · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 17, 2008, 09:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by FMadera

I'd say a brand new, harder, ball will bounce higher than a worn out, softer ball.

I think you get the point.

I honestly don't. Are you saying that you could have two volleyballs -- one old and one new -- that bounce exactly the same; yet one would be acceptable to play with and the other would not be acceptable?

FMadera · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 17, 2008, 09:47pm

Yes, I'm saying you can have that. I'm also saying a volleyball bouncing off a sportcourt isn't going to bounce as high as a volleyball on a basketball court. A volleyball on basketball court A isn't going to bounce the same height as a volleyball on basketball court B. Not all balls have the same softness. A softer ball will compress more (and therefore, rebound less) than a harder ball. Every ball will react just a little more differently than the next one, so the bounce test doesn't fly.

The PSI rule is pretty clear. There is no other way to accurately measure it other than with a gauge of some sort. The rules don't specify how the ball should bounce, but they do specify how much air should be in them. Therefore, the gauge should be used to assess legality.

Back In The Saddle · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 19, 2008, 12:47am

Most of what I've heard so far equates to "it won't work because it won't work." Which is a total non-argument.

I do buy the argument about different surfaces producing a different bounce. I also think that the relatively small mass of a volleyball would probably make for a much wider range of bounce heights, and allow significant variability based on the material and age of the ball. Much more so that in a basketball.

outathm · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 19, 2008, 08:35am

I think that Basketball has always used the bounce test and so that is acceptable for them. Volleyball continues to require us to gauge the balls and that is what we will do.

It would be interesting to see what the Basketballs gauge at after a bounce test and what difference there is from proper inflation.

Scrapper1 · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 19, 2008, 09:57am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

I do buy the argument about different surfaces producing a different bounce.

Since I only work games on hardwood basketball courts, this is irrelevant to me, personally. It might make some theoretical difference, but not to me.

Quote:

I also think that the relatively small mass of a volleyball would probably make for a much wider range of bounce heights, and allow significant variability based on the material and age of the ball.

Being a non-physicist, this seems to me to admit of a fairly insignificant difference between balls.

And to a larger point, if 2 balls can have the same air pressure and bounce to significantly different heights, that's a terrible situation. You play the first set with a ball that the kids get used to. Then it rolls under the bleachers and you play with another ball. It's perfectly legal, because it's the same air pressure as the first. But the first server hits it 20 feet out of bounds because the ball bounces significantly more, even with the same air pressure.

That's a ridiculous situation.

refnrev · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 19, 2008, 10:09am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I honestly don't. Are you saying that you could have two volleyballs -- one old and one new -- that bounce exactly the same; yet one would be acceptable to play with and the other would not be acceptable?

_______________
Hey Scrapper,
Just go with them on this one. They're right. Volleyballs and Basketballs are like apples and oranges. You need to gauge them not bounce them. Think of it this way... one ball is bounced off the floor and the other is played repeatedly with figertips, hands, and forearms. Nothing close to the same thing. If you don't have a gauge, your partner probably will. If not, the school will on the electric pump.

refnrev · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 19, 2008, 10:13am

Quote:

Originally Posted by FMadera

I'd say a brand new, harder, ball will bounce higher than a worn out, softer ball.

One floor might be a little softer than another. Synthetic court will yield a different bounce than a wood court.

I think you get the point.

_______________________

Why do college football teams take bags of their own "broken in" footballs to games? Because new ones are harder, slick, and hard to handle. Worn volleyballs will also be a little softer and not as slick as new ones. They'll feel and obviously bounce differently.

refnrev · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 19, 2008, 10:15am

Since we are on gauges and I'm getting ready to buy a new one when I order new basketball pants, I assume the dial gauges are far superior to the silver auto tire type, correct? Chime in friends.

Classic · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 19, 2008, 02:46pm

I previously owned one of the inexpensive dial-type gauges and would compare it to other dial-type gauges owned by other VB refs. I saw differences between those types of gauges quite often. Since then I (and other refs in my area) have purchased one of the digital gauges mentioned and been pleased with the results.

FMadera · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Nov 19, 2008, 03:38pm

Requires a lithium ion battery, needs to be changed about 1-2 times per year, but has a digital readout and a pump built in, so you don't have to put in the air gauge and then pump, then the gauge, etc.

Back In The Saddle · #13 (**permalink**) Thu Nov 20, 2008, 05:33pm

I admit it, I'm a gadget geek. I want one of these.

Now, if they'd combine the digital gauge with a small electric air compressor and an electrically actuated pressure release valve, so that you can dial in the exact pressure you want and it automatically adjusts it for you...

THAT would be ultimately cool.

Retrozetti · #14 (**permalink**) Sun Nov 23, 2008, 09:39pm

Regarding the Molten Gauge... I love it, and I use it all the time. And I would buy it again and again. But one note of caution from my personal experience... I've had to replace the battery twice (not a concern)... but the problem I've found with it is that when the battery gets low, normally you would expect the display to start fading, but not mine... the first thing that happens is the gauge begins reading inaccurately, THEN the display starts fading. Example, I keep pumping up a ball because the gauge is reading 3.7, but the ball feels hard as a rock... I use my non-digital gauge, and it's reading 7.6 Like I said, it's a definite concern to be aware of, but even with that, I love it and would buy it again and again.