Umpire wants yellow card, Referee refuses - OK?

officialtony · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Sep 29, 2004, 06:44pm

Jr. Hi Match. I am referee and have an umpire assisting. Team A completes a rally point scored and Team B coach jumps up and loudly says " how about a carry on two of those hits ? ". I respond by saying they were legal hits in my opinion. I sense no problem here. As she sits down she says " yeah right ". Umpire pulls his yellow card and wants to give her unsportsmanlike card. I disagree. I felt she said what she wanted to and sat down. It was neither violent nor disrespectful ( in my opinioin ), and I considered the fact they were losing their second game by a margin of more than 18 points. I considered it more frustration than unsporting.
I denied the yellow card and my umpire came over to confer. I again denied the yellow and he reluctlantly put it away.
Was I wrong? Do I back up this kind of call when I truly believe there was no unsporting behavior? Do I HAVE to back up his call?

Homer · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Sep 29, 2004, 10:19pm

Sorry, Tony, but you blew this one.

ALWAYS back up your umpire on these sorts of things.

The umpire has the authority to determine UC by players and coaches - once s/he's done so, yours is merely the ministerial task of actually administering the card. Besides, it's -just- a yellow card, just a warning after all.

If you disagree, speak with your umpire privately after the game but NEVER fail to back your umpire in public with UC calls. You can get yourself in a heap of trouble if you fail to do so - both with your umpire and with game control.

-Homer-

officialtony · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 30, 2004, 06:53am

Well, I guess I blew it!
I really felt like this was insignificant and I didn't want to make an issue out of it. The reality of it is, I DID make an issue out of it and shouldn't have. The U and I discussed it afterwards and he was not upset, but did feel I should have backed him up. I am working again with him tonight and I will be sure to apologize again and tell him in the future I will support ALL his calls.
I probably should have known better anyway. In Baseball, we NEVER hesitate to back each other's calls - even if we feel the desire to - for the same reasons you expressed earlier.
Again, thanks for the feedback. I am still learning with every serve, every play, every whistle, every call.

( I am surprised more people didn't reach out to let me know of my mistake. )

TimTaylor · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 30, 2004, 11:50am

Quote:

Originally posted by officialtony

( I am surprised more people didn't reach out to let me know of my mistake. )

Tony,

Homer did a good job in his usual eloquent way - no point in piling it on.....

The fact of the matter is, we all make mistakes - the day I call an absolutely perfect match it's time to hang up the whistle. The important thing is to learn from them & keep trying to get better.

There's no better reward for me than being in the middle of a close match, making the tough call & KNOWING you got it right! Makes all the effort worth it....

officialtony · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Sep 30, 2004, 12:41pm

Thanks.
I know I am a better official today than I was one month ago. My goal - as you said - is to learn and keep getting better.
However, when you do get that perfect match, PLEASE don't hang up the whistle! There are too many of us who look to your experience to learn more and keep reaching for that same perfect match some day. There are far too few GOOD officials - one of the reasons I decided to become an official myself.
Best of luck.

varefump · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Nov 19, 2004, 03:15pm

One additional comment/observation/suggestion:
If an umpire indicates to the referee that a RED CARD is needed, it is best to have the umpire go to the referee and explain the rationale behind the request. Since the result of a Red Card is a point, the referee should be completely knowledgeable as to why a Penalty Point is awarded.
This is especially true when the umpire is rather novice or maybe new to the level of competition.
This is also one time when the 'R' does not need to back up the 'U'.
Many times the referee can briefly explain why he/she is not going to card a player/coach because of its negative impact on the match.
If the referee agrees that a Red Card is appropriate, then it will apear to the coaches and fans that it's a 'crew' decision, and not one based solely on the judgement of one official.

MCBear · #7 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 11, 2004, 04:23am

Hopefully, during your prematch conference with your partner, you will discuss how you want to handle card requests. In one of the associations to which I belong, we are told to discuss this situation and then, if the umpire wants a yellow card, they are to show the index finger in the middle of the chest and if they are requesting a red card, they discretely show two fingers. Hopefully, we will not have a request for a disqualification (in 22 high school seasons, I have only had 2 instances where we had to DQ anyone from a match).

Tony, as Homer indicated, you should have backed the umpire's request for a YC. Since this is Federation rules, it is a warning and tells the coach that they have reached the line. In the situation that you gave, the coach crossed the line into minor unsporting behavior when she said, "yeah, right!" Plus, she was off the bench inappropriately...protesting a ball-handling call in itself is close to minor unsporting (depending on tone of voice, volume, etc.)

Vb Scrub · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 28, 2004, 06:15pm

Why would the 2nd ref pull out a yellow card? I can see discretely asking for it but not pulling one out.

MCBear · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 28, 2004, 09:37pm

Vb scrub, first of all - welcome to the Forum. Hopefully you will receive tips and techniques that will help your officiating to improve.

In the NFHS Case Book, the umpire is instructed to show the card that they are requesting to their partner by displaying it in the middle of their chest in the hand on the side that is being sanctioned (Yellow Card for warning; Red Card for penalty). We want to be sure that we are using proper protocols and that we have discussed them with our partner before the match so we know what we are going to do if the situation arises.

Vb Scrub · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 29, 2004, 12:40pm

Oh, ok. Thanks for the welcome.

Are the majority of officials here NFHS?

MCBear · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 29, 2004, 05:38pm

That's a good question. I only know a couple of the members from the Federation Discussion Board. I have a feeling that most of us officiate at all levels - NFHS, NCAA, NAIA, USAV, and rec leagues.

Homer · #12 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 31, 2004, 12:05am

Quote:

Originally posted by varefump
This is also one time when the 'R' does not need to back up the 'U'.
Many times the referee can briefly explain why he/she is not going to card a player/coach because of its negative impact on the match.
If the referee agrees that a Red Card is appropriate, then it will apear to the coaches and fans that it's a 'crew' decision, and not one based solely on the judgement of one official.

The rulebook says, "It is the responsibility of the referee to IMMEDIATELY administer any card(s) requested by the umpire."
[Page 46]

I'd suggest it is always a good idea to follow the rule book.

Are you going to overrule your umpire on a net violation call because of its "negative impact on the match"?

FMadera · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 03, 2005, 03:23pm

Quote:

Originally posted by varefump
If the referee agrees that a Red Card is appropriate, then it will apear to the coaches and fans that it's a 'crew' decision, and not one based solely on the judgement of one official.

Not necessary in NFHS. If the Umpire issues a card, it's a card. College and USAV, yes, the Referee/R1 should know why the card is requested, so as to let the captain know when officially administering the sanction, but in high school, both officials have the ability to administer cards. If you are leery of your partner's judgement in issuing sanctions, a good pre-match discussion should cover that topic in case it becomes an issue.

I ask, respectfully, would you as a Referee consult with your Umpire before issuing a card, so as to make it appear to be a "'crew' decision?"

MCBear · #14 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 03, 2005, 04:59pm

Felix, at this point it would probably be most helpful to refer to page 46 of the current NFHS Rules Book:

"PROCEDURE FOR UNSPORTSMANLIKE CONDUCT VIOLATIONS:
1. The referee, as the head official, sets the tone for the match and shall be responsible for controlling the unsportsmanlike conduct of coaches, players and/or other team personnel. Therefore, only the referee shall administer the cards...

2. When the umpire sees or hears an action or response that necessitates a card, he/she shall move to the offending team's side of the net and take a few steps onto the court toward the referee. The umpire holds the card(s) in the middle of his/her chest and indicates verbally the number of the offending player(s) or coach. It is the responsibility of the referee to immediately administer any card(s) requested by the umpire."

As shown in the above, the umpire requests a card and the referee is responsible for administering it - the umpire does not have the authority to administer a card. The rules book is quite specific in this regard. For further clarification, see page 71 of the 2004-05 NFHS Volleyball Case Book and Manual.

When I am the referee and my umpire requests a card, usually I will have an idea as to why the request is being made. However, the key to all situations is communication. If I do not know what happened to cause my umpire to request a card, I will call him/her over and get a clarification so that, as the head official, I know who and what action I am sanctioning.

[Edited by MCBear on Jan 3rd, 2005 at 05:14 PM]

FMadera · #15 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 04, 2005, 10:45am

Jan, you quoted the procedure nicely. I'll re-state what I meant...if the umpire *wants* to issue card, then a card is issued (by the referee). It does not have to be a team decision, though I agree, it would be helpful for the referee to know why the card is being requested, but if the umpire feels a card is worthy, the referee must immediately issue it, and has no grounds to overrule it.

Different, of course, in NCAA and USAV...