Never seen before

[Scrapper1]

Tonight, I was LJ1 and saw a play that I have honestly never seen before at any level. The ball is being played on my side of the court. The ball is passed to the setter, the ball is set to a back-row hitter who is just behind the 3 meter line, more or less right in front of me. The hitter attacks the ball.

So far, nothing unusual.

However, as the back-row player is attacking the ball, the front-row player in front of him is jumping to FAKE the attack. When the back-row player contacts the ball, the ball then glances off the forearm of the faking front-row player.

There is no whistle from the R1 and no signal from the R2. The R1 is a great official. To make matters worse, it was match point. (It was 25-10, so it didn't affect the game, but still.) We talked about it after the match. R1 had moved his eyes to the other side of the net, and the R2 was focused on the blocking action at the net. I only saw it because both players were in my direct line of sight for the whole play.

Is there ANY way that I can or should indicate this fault to one of the referees? I'm 99% sure that the answer is no, but I feel like this is important enough to warrant as much as input as the referees can get.

[FMadera]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Tonight, I was LJ1 and saw a play that I have honestly never seen before at any level. The ball is being played on my side of the court. The ball is passed to the setter, the ball is set to a back-row hitter who is just behind the 3 meter line, more or less right in front of me. The hitter attacks the ball.

So far, nothing unusual.

However, as the back-row player is attacking the ball, the front-row player in front of him is jumping to FAKE the attack. When the back-row player contacts the ball, the ball then glances off the forearm of the faking front-row player.

There is no whistle from the R1 and no signal from the R2. The R1 is a great official. To make matters worse, it was match point. (It was 25-10, so it didn't affect the game, but still.) We talked about it after the match. R1 had moved his eyes to the other side of the net, and the R2 was focused on the blocking action at the net. I only saw it because both players were in my direct line of sight for the whole play.

Is there ANY way that I can or should indicate this fault to one of the referees? I'm 99% sure that the answer is no, but I feel like this is important enough to warrant as much as input as the referees can get.

No. Four hits isn't a line judge call.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by FMadera

Four hits isn't a line judge call.

Obviously

And I knew that would be the answer I would get. But it does seem like there should be some mechanism to provide important information to the referees. I don't line judge a lot in HS, except during the post-season. But in my limited career, this is the second time that I've seen a non-judgment fault but been unable to help the referees.

Just seems like a flaw to me. You've got 4 very good experienced officials out there. Wouldn't you want to get that info? I know I would if I were R1.

[FMadera]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Obviously

And I knew that would be the answer I would get. But it does seem like there should be some mechanism to provide important information to the referees. I don't line judge a lot in HS, except during the post-season. But in my limited career, this is the second time that I've seen a non-judgment fault but been unable to help the referees.

Just seems like a flaw to me. You've got 4 very good experienced officials out there. Wouldn't you want to get that info? I know I would if I were R1.

If your R1 calls you over and asks you for information, your certainly allowed to answer whatever question is posed to you. But that wasn't really what you asked. You wouldn't give info on double contacts, right?

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by FMadera

If your R1 calls you over and asks you for information, your certainly allowed to answer whatever question is posed to you.

Absolutely. But if the R1 doesn't realize that I have the answer to an important question, s/he has no way to get that info. That seems like a hole in the system to me.

You wouldn't give info on double contacts, right?

Absolutely not. But that's usually a judgment call. I'm talking non-judgment.

[FMadera]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Absolutely. But if the R1 doesn't realize that I have the answer to an important question, s/he has no way to get that info. That seems like a hole in the system to me.



Absolutely not. But that's usually a judgment call. I'm talking non-judgment.

Touches and in/out are judgment too. Most of what we call is judgment.

Another example: If you see a player in the antenna, that's not your call to signal. But if your R1 calls you over to ask what happened, you are free to then say what you saw. The R1 can then use that information to make a final decision, you just can't signal it since it's not in your duties.

[genetoy71]

I'm curious. If you are a line judge watching your antenna and your line, how do you see a ball graze a forearm above the net in the middle of the court?

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by genetoy71

I'm curious. If you are a line judge watching your antenna and your line, how do you see a ball graze a forearm above the net in the middle of the court?

Before I reply, is this a serious question because you really don't know what a line judge would be looking at? Or is this a sarcastic comment to imply that I should not have been looking at a ball being played at the net?

[FMadera]

Originally Posted by genetoy71

I'm curious. If you are a line judge watching your antenna and your line, how do you see a ball graze a forearm above the net in the middle of the court?

If that's all you think a line judge should focus on, I'm going to guess you're missing a lot of touches off the block when you line judge.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Tonight, I was LJ1 and saw a play that I have honestly never seen before at any level. The ball is being played on my side of the court. The ball is passed to the setter, the ball is set to a back-row hitter who is just behind the 3 meter line, more or less right in front of me. The hitter attacks the ball.

So far, nothing unusual.

However, as the back-row player is attacking the ball, the front-row player in front of him is jumping to FAKE the attack. When the back-row player contacts the ball, the ball then glances off the forearm of the faking front-row player.

There is no whistle from the R1 and no signal from the R2. The R1 is a great official. To make matters worse, it was match point. (It was 25-10, so it didn't affect the game, but still.) We talked about it after the match. R1 had moved his eyes to the other side of the net, and the R2 was focused on the blocking action at the net. I only saw it because both players were in my direct line of sight for the whole play.

Is there ANY way that I can or should indicate this fault to one of the referees? I'm 99% sure that the answer is no, but I feel like this is important enough to warrant as much as input as the referees can get.

No, even though you know the call is missed there is nothing that can be done to receive your input on this call unless you are asked for the input. Now, if the team that lost the point questions the call and the R1 asks you to provide input as to what you witnessed, then you can provide the input. Even then I think providing that input opens a huge can of worms though for both the R1 and the LJ. It is obviously admitting a missed call by the R1, which could lead to requests to review basic calls in the future by the same teams. Additionally, even though you were absolutely correct in your watching the contact, you could be accused of officiating beyond your duties as a LJ.

On this the best thing to do is keep your mouth shut unless asked and understand that missed calls happen.


This does remind me of a situation I had years ago. Varsity tourney on the final weekend before the state playoffs. Its the silver bracket semi-final and there is an obvious missed 4 hits call. (By obvious I mean 3 clear hits before the ball was close to the net and the 4th sending it over. I'm the R2 and immediately put 4 fingers across my chest. Nothing happens. Play continues and the offended team coach is offended and is screaming from the bench. Finally their team loses the point and coach is ballastic on the bench. Our association makes it clear the R2 never crosses to talk to the R1 unless the R1 beacons the R2 across. Screw that, I'm going across to let the R1 know that was a clear 4 hits. (This somewhat calms the coach down). I tell him we had a clear four hits and am able to tell him exactly what part of the court they were on. (Pass backward, pass to the 10 foot, pass to the setter at the 10 foot, and a hit from the 10 foot over the net). His response was that we only had three hits. After wiping the look of shock off my face I turn around trying to figure out how I will sell the call to the now more irate coach. As I am walking back I see all three players working the scorers table, plus both lines judges holding up four fingers. I end up having to yellow card the coach.

Move on to the next set and there is a ball that hits about a foot in front of the yellow carded coaches player and she hits it after the bounce. I, as well as both line judges, are signally in. Play continues. Yellow carded coaches team ends up winning the point. As I am doing a sub for the other team yellow carded coach asks to talk to me. "I want you to give the point to the other team, that ball was clearly down." I then had to go explain to the R1 why this call was being over ruled.

After the match I immediately walk away to not lose my cool with this guy on the court. He walks into the officials room and says something about how rough a match that was. It took every ounce of power in me not to start ripping into the incompetent fool. I think I still have a hole in my tongue from biting it so hard. I spent an hour writing and email to my assigner about that match. Worst match I've ever had to deal with from a partner perspective.