Another Line Judge Question

[Tony.oe4]

I line judged a high school Sectional match last year in Illinois (NHFS). I was L2. The ball was hit and landed on inside of my sideline but clearly past the end line. My partner signaled in. I am 100% positive it was out. Is there anything I should do as a line judge since I am not supposed to call my partner's endline?

The result was the R1 called the ball in but I could tell by her reaction that she questioned the L1's call.

[timasdf]

Originally Posted by Tony.oe4

I line judged a high school Sectional match last year in Illinois (NHFS). I was L2. The ball was hit and landed on inside of my sideline but clearly past the end line. My partner signaled in. I am 100% positive it was out. Is there anything I should do as a line judge since I am not supposed to call my partner's endline?

The result was the R1 called the ball in but I could tell by her reaction that she questioned the L1's call.

Each LJ should make his/her call independently.

In this case, you should each call your line as you see it. In an example similar to this, it's entirely possible that BOTH of you make the right call from your positions...and each have different signals (one says in, one says out).

Assuming that both LJs are making their correct calls, the R1 would then correctly rule "out."

[Tony.oe4]

Tim, your answer makes sense if both LJs call his/her line correctly. What I am asking is if am 100% positive that my partner missed the call, is there anything I should do? In full disclosure, for this particular call, I could tell my partner was not focused as his/her flag was delayed and his/her head turned to look at the line after I already made my line call which means my partner could not have seen the the ball land.

[timasdf]

Originally Posted by Tony.oe4

Tim, your answer makes sense if both LJs call his/her line correctly. What I am asking is if am 100% positive that my partner missed the call, is there anything I should do?

Nope!

There is nothing you can do. Best to hope that the R1 will make the correct decision on this one.

As an aside...One time, when I was working as LJ in the West Coast Conference, I was (incorrectly!) overruled. My affirmation was when *ALL* of the coaches and players came unglued about the overrule. No...it wasn't just complaints about a call not going their way. Everyone immediately went crazy.

In the post-match, the R1 told me something to the effect of "oops. I guess I got that one wrong." :-)


Another situation as LJ (from the time when serves couldn't touch the net):

The served ball definitely touched the net. One of nets those where the white "wrapper" over the cable wasn't flush with the top cable across the entire net.

The ball touched the white wrapper. The R1 didn't feel it (hand on net cable). I saw it as LJ. Coaches and players near me also saw it and complained.

Since it's not part of the LJ duties, I did nothing. R1 (correctly, by rule) didn't ask me, either.

[Tony.oe4]

Thanks Tim. That is what I thought but I wanted to make sure.

[Scrapper1]

My question is how you could be 100% sure of the line call on the far endline? It would have to be 3-6 feet OOB in order to be 100% sure from the LJ2 position, right? And if it was SO far out that you really are 100%, how could the R1 NOT also know?

I'm honestly not trying to be critical, so I hope it doesn't sound that way. I'm just trying to picture from my own experience if I could be 100% sure of that call.

[timasdf]

Not sure if Tony is around anymore, but your question made my point.

If the ball is so far out that I could be 100% from 60+ feet away, it would be far enough out that the R1 would know it.

I hope this helps. It reinforces the point that if everyone does their own job, things should work out in the end.

[Tony.oe4]

I clearly saw court between the line and the ball. The ball was hit slow enough that I am very confident it was past the end line but within my sideline. I did make my in call since it was within my sideline.

This was during a high school match so there was not a whole lot of communication prior to the start and there was no post match meeting.

[FMadera]

Originally Posted by Tony.oe4

I clearly saw court between the line and the ball. The ball was hit slow enough that I am very confident it was past the end line but within my sideline.

Speaking generally, 60 plus feet away from ball can create some misleading angles, views, and opinions.

In any case, not your dog, not your fleas, stick to your responsibilities unless specifically asked (and in this case, I could hope you wouldn't be).

[Tony.oe4]

Originally Posted by FMadera

Speaking generally, 60 plus feet away from ball can create some misleading angles, views, and opinions.

In any case, not your dog, not your fleas, stick to your responsibilities unless specifically asked (and in this case, I could hope you wouldn't be).

I was just checking with the group and all the responses were very similar in nature which is to make the call I am supposed to make and not worry about my partner's call. I did just that in this case.

Thanks for all the clarification!

[dbwill]

Originally Posted by FMadera

In any case, not your dog, not your fleas, stick to your responsibilities unless specifically asked (and in this case, I could hope you wouldn't be).

Would this also apply to seeing, for instance, receiving LF with a foot outside the court as serve is struck? As a LJ, should I circle the flag over my head and point at the line or ignore since it is R2's call?

[FMadera]

Originally Posted by dbwill

Would this also apply to seeing, for instance, receiving LF with a foot outside the court as serve is struck? As a LJ, should I circle the flag over my head and point at the line or ignore since it is R2's call?

Depends on the situation. Talk about it during your prematch. Some referees want to be the sole determinant of what's bad enough to call.

In this situation, if I were rating that R2, I'd either want them to make the call or at least address the situation with the player/coach. Not that addressing it is required, but it's better than ignoring big faults, IMO.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by dbwill

Would this also apply to seeing, for instance, receiving LF with a foot outside the court as serve is struck? As a LJ, should I circle the flag over my head and point at the line or ignore since it is R2's call?

I can't speak for FED, because I don't have the books handy, but PAVO shoes:

Situations When Line Judges Do Not Signal

6. Non-server is touching the floor outside the sideline or end line on contact of serve.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Situations When Line Judges Do Not Signal

6. Non-server is touching the floor outside the sideline or end line on contact of serve.

Bob beat me to it, but this is specifically addressed as NOT the responsibility of the LJ. (I think that's a recent change, btw, like within the last 5 years. But I wouldn't swear to that.)

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by Tony.oe4

I line judged a high school Sectional match last year in Illinois (NHFS). I was L2. The ball was hit and landed on inside of my sideline but clearly past the end line. My partner signaled in. I am 100% positive it was out. Is there anything I should do as a line judge since I am not supposed to call my partner's endline?

The result was the R1 called the ball in but I could tell by her reaction that she questioned the L1's call.

I had a very similar situation to this yesterday at a HS regular seasoning ending tourney. Losing team had to stay and work table and lines.

Ball is hit down the line. Ball hits the hash mark beyond the end line. on the end line calls it in. LJ on the sideline knows it is long and calls it out.

Thankfully, as the R1 I had an out call as well.

Only 1 player on the attacking team even questioned it a little bit.

During the time out I reminded the LJ to call her lines only, not the other LJ lines. She smirked and walked away.

I guess that's what you get when you have sandel wearing LJ's who are pissed about losing the in their first round playoff match in the third 20-18.