That's OK. We have that covered here! :D

Ya think? :)

If I understand correctly (a stretch, I know), then I am glad I made this a separate thread and not included it in Andy's thread about un-ringing a swing. I thought there would be similarities.

My comprehension in summarizing the two threads:

1. PU sees and calls a swing that BU knows was not a swing.
We eat that call.

2. BU sees and calls a pulled foot that PU knows was not a pulled foot.
We can change that call.

Aren't both situations here judgement calls?

Here is where I am confused.
Isn't going for help to ask for missing information?
Rather than a 2nd opinion about a judgement?

If the latter, where do we draw the line? (Assuming there is a line to draw)

Please advise.

The logical similarity is there as you say, but we treat a swing called a strike as unchangeable; even though we will change a non-swing call to a swing with help. Not necessarily logical, not in the "book", just umpiring.
I think I commented on the reasoning in the other topic.

A pulled foot change (either way) is the same as any play; like either the runner or fielder missing the base or a trap/catch when the partner has a better angle. Or a missed tag (me yesterday).

"Was her foot on the bag?" is asking for a missing piece of information needed to make a call.


"What did you have on that call?" is asking for a second opinion on a judgement.

One thing that I was taught as a general rule is that when you go to your partner for help, you ask a question that will have a YES or NO answer.

Was the foot on the base?
Do you have a tag?
Did she bobble the ball?

By doing this, you are not asking for an opinion on your judgment, you are asking for a missing "piece of the puzzle" necessary to make that judgement

Agree, as specific as possible. :cool:

Also, the partner should say nothing until asked and only what is asked.
Also, just umpires in the conversation.
:rolleyes:

Quickest way for a partner to tick me off is to come to me for help and say "Whatcha got?" After a few years I finally figured out the answer should have been, "High blood pressure from fielding stupid questions from my partner!" :)

To me this is the one time that we "don't guess an out". In most instances were are taught that unless we are 100% sure of an out, the call is safe. In this instance the best thing to do is call the runner out unless you are 100% of the pulled foot. Then if the offensive coach thinks there was a pulled foot you can go to the PU for help on the call. If you call the pulled foot you have to be 100% sure of the pulled foot, then the PU shouldn't have anything to change the call.

I was discussing this with an occasional partner a few weeks ago; I like his standard answer: "I got what you got."

Honestly, the only way I can envision PU helping "unpull" the foot is if the BU positively saw the foot pull, but was straightlined when the fielder tried to reach that foot BACK toward the base, and needed help confirming whether she got her foot back in time (or at all).

But even there it's problematical, for all the reasons mentioned above.