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-   -   Fair-Foul Question and other questions (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/99732-fair-foul-question-other-questions.html)

btw Tue May 05, 2015 05:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 961769)
Given the number of incredibly bizarre things that seem to happen in your games... this stuns me.

I have definitely seen coaches both TRY to change their mind ... and succeed in changing their minds.

The most dramatic "try" to change their mind I can recall. About 165 years ago. Home Coach, who is leading, tells one of my umpires #10 for #4 as they are switching sides for them to bat. This was a semi-final of a tourney. Coach only has 10 players, and this is likely the final inning (apparently) due to time limit. #4 was due up 4th.

#1 out. #2 out. #3 hits a triple... tries to stretch it into a run - gets caught in a run-down and twists her ankle getting out. She can't continue, but all this happened so quickly that the game did not, in fact, end.

Coach tries to "unsubstitute" 4 back in for 10 so 10 can replace the injured #3. Sorry coach. You don't have 9? You forfeit. He got ejected before his assistant protested, to no avail. Other team to the final.

(And yes... after the tourney around the post-tourney umpire meal he gets told by almost everyone he should not have accepted that sub at that time.)

I've seen NUMEROUS instances of coaches succeeding in undoing a "projected" sub (not always injury ... most often a projected sub for a 4th or later batter in the inning where they didn't get to batter 4, so umpire undid the sub since they never really got there), and yes, I had a little chat with the umpire afterward.
A little off topic, but couldn't they have kept going with 8 under the shorthanded rule?

IRISHMAFIA Tue May 05, 2015 08:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 961769)
Given the number of incredibly bizarre things that seem to happen in your games... this stuns me.

I have definitely seen coaches both TRY to change their mind ... and succeed in changing their minds.

The most dramatic "try" to change their mind I can recall. About 165 years ago. Home Coach, who is leading, tells one of my umpires #10 for #4 as they are switching sides for them to bat. This was a semi-final of a tourney. Coach only has 10 players, and this is likely the final inning (apparently) due to time limit. #4 was due up 4th.

#1 out. #2 out. #3 hits a triple... tries to stretch it into a run - gets caught in a run-down and twists her ankle getting out. She can't continue, but all this happened so quickly that the game did not, in fact, end.

Coach tries to "unsubstitute" 4 back in for 10 so 10 can replace the injured #3. Sorry coach. You don't have 9? You forfeit. He got ejected before his assistant protested, to no avail. Other team to the final.

(And yes... after the tourney around the post-tourney umpire meal he gets told by almost everyone he should not have accepted that sub at that time.)
IMO, "almost everyone" at the table was wrong. It was a legitimate change that was initiated by the coach. Let me say that again, INITIATED BY THE COACH. No one did anything wrong, not even the coach. The only questionable act was that the coach didn't have the foresight to hedge his bets to protect his team. Not smart, maybe, but certainly not illegal or inappropriate.

And it is not the umpires position to protect the coach from him/herself. You want to exercise some preventive umpiring and recognize the potential issue? Fine, remind the coach that he is exhausting his/her bench and if s/he gives you the change, take it, record it, announce it and move on with the game.

chapmaja Tue May 05, 2015 09:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 961769)
Given the number of incredibly bizarre things that seem to happen in your games... this stuns me.

I have definitely seen coaches both TRY to change their mind ... and succeed in changing their minds.

The most dramatic "try" to change their mind I can recall. About 165 years ago. Home Coach, who is leading, tells one of my umpires #10 for #4 as they are switching sides for them to bat. This was a semi-final of a tourney. Coach only has 10 players, and this is likely the final inning (apparently) due to time limit. #4 was due up 4th.

#1 out. #2 out. #3 hits a triple... tries to stretch it into a run - gets caught in a run-down and twists her ankle getting out. She can't continue, but all this happened so quickly that the game did not, in fact, end.

Coach tries to "unsubstitute" 4 back in for 10 so 10 can replace the injured #3. Sorry coach. You don't have 9? You forfeit. He got ejected before his assistant protested, to no avail. Other team to the final.

(And yes... after the tourney around the post-tourney umpire meal he gets told by almost everyone he should not have accepted that sub at that time.)

I've seen NUMEROUS instances of coaches succeeding in undoing a "projected" sub (not always injury ... most often a projected sub for a 4th or later batter in the inning where they didn't get to batter 4, so umpire undid the sub since they never really got there), and yes, I had a little chat with the umpire afterward.
You obviously missed the sarcasm face at the end of my post didn't you. Either that or you are being just as sarcastic.

AtlUmpSteve Tue May 05, 2015 11:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by btw (Post 961775)
A little off topic, but couldn't they have kept going with 8 under the shorthanded rule?
Not so much off topic. The shorthanded rule hasn't existed for 165 years; the prior rule (maybe 12-15 years ago is my guess without actual reasearch) made anything less than what you started with (except the legal 10 to 9 in merging DP and DEFO, now FLEX) a forfeit.

That is still the case in NCAA.

MD Longhorn Wed May 06, 2015 08:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by btw (Post 961775)
A little off topic, but couldn't they have kept going with 8 under the shorthanded rule?
Not then.

btw Wed May 06, 2015 09:04am
Ah, makes sense. Thanks for the info!

teebob21 Wed May 06, 2015 10:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 961769)
The most dramatic "try" to change their mind I can recall. About 165 years ago. Home Coach, who is leading, tells one of my umpires #10 for #4 as they are switching sides for them to bat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve (Post 961790)
Not so much off topic. The shorthanded rule hasn't existed for 165 years; the prior rule (maybe 12-15 years ago is my guess without actual reasearch) made anything less than what you started with (except the legal 10 to 9 in merging DP and DEFO, now FLEX) a forfeit.

That is still the case in NCAA.
165 years? Is this some sort of a meme that I'm missing out on? :D :confused:

(I even checked Wikipedia to see what year softball was invented...[1887].)

MD Longhorn Wed May 06, 2015 11:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teebob21 (Post 961807)
165 years? Is this some sort of a meme that I'm missing out on? :D :confused:

(I even checked Wikipedia to see what year softball was invented...[1887].)
I see it now. My bad. Fixed.

15 years ago.

AtlUmpSteve Wed May 06, 2015 01:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teebob21 (Post 961807)
165 years? Is this some sort of a meme that I'm missing out on? :D :confused:

(I even checked Wikipedia to see what year softball was invented...[1887].)

MD Longhorn edited his post, but #30 in this thread said it happened 165 years ago. I was simply following him with an attempt at humor. ;)

Anything that old probably had me and IrishMafia on the field.

teebob21 Wed May 06, 2015 02:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve (Post 961827)
MD Longhorn edited his post, but #30 in this thread said it happened 165 years ago. I was simply following him with an attempt at humor. ;)

Anything that old probably had me and IrishMafia on the field.
Let me guess: You had the broomstick, and Irish threw the boxing glove? :D


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