Huh?

Blueump1 · #1 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 28, 2015, 01:25pm

Varsity FED game last night. The HT has just batted and is getting ready to go on defense. The coach comes out and asks this question:

"Can I have a non-pitcher take 2 warm-up throws to the catcher from the rubber and have it just count against my pitcher's warm up tosses?"

Manny A · #2 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 28, 2015, 01:33pm

What did you tell the coach? And what is the repercussion if the non-pitcher did throw those two warm-ups?

chapmaja · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 28, 2015, 01:44pm

That's actually an interesting question. The rules say the pitcher can have warm-up throws and there shall be 1 minute to accomplish this. It does not say anything about any other player taking warm-up throws from the pitchers plate if they are not the pitcher.

In theory every player on the team could come out and take a warm-up throw to the catcher before the half inning starts. They are not the pitcher, so it doesn't count against the pitches for the pitcher, but it does count against the time between half innings.

Why a coach would want a non-pitcher taking tosses I really have no idea. Maybe a new catcher and they want softer tosses to the catcher first?

Blueump1 · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 28, 2015, 01:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny A

What did you tell the coach? And what is the repercussion if the non-pitcher did throw those two warm-ups?

I told the coach that baring injury, the person taking the warm-up pitches must pitch to at least the first batter. If she threw a warm-up pitch, she was their new pitcher.

jmkupka · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 28, 2015, 01:57pm

nope, that's unsupported by the rulebook... a myth up there with "hands are part of the bat"...

UmpireErnie · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 28, 2015, 02:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueump1

I told the coach that baring injury, the person taking the warm-up pitches must pitch to at least the first batter. If she threw a warm-up pitch, she was their new pitcher.

Did the coach buy this?

Dakota · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 28, 2015, 02:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueump1

Varsity FED game last night. The HT has just batted and is getting ready to go on defense. The coach comes out and asks this question:

"Can I have a non-pitcher take 2 warm-up throws to the catcher from the rubber and have it just count against my pitcher's warm up tosses?"

"Sure, coach. It will have nothing to do with your pitcher's warm up pitches, but it will count against your 1 minute between innings."

Rule 3-6
ART. 6 . . . Only the batter, runner(s), on-deck batter, coaches in the coach's box, bat/ball shaggers or one of the nine players on defense (S.P. 10) are permitted to be outside the designated dugout/bench or designated warm-up areas. (3-5-7)

NOTE: Bench personnel are permitted to engage in throwing and running activities during the one minute designated for the pitcher to throw her five warm-up pitches at the beginning of each half inning.

It doesn't say "throwing activities except pitching"...

Manny A · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 28, 2015, 03:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueump1

I told the coach that baring injury, the person taking the warm-up pitches must pitch to at least the first batter. If she threw a warm-up pitch, she was their new pitcher.

That's a Little League rule for an unannounced substitution. In FED softball, a player becomes the new pitcher when she is announced, or she is an unannounced substitute and the plate umpire puts the ball in play. Just delivering warm-up pitches means nothing by rule.

Blueump1 · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 28, 2015, 08:03pm

Okay, I'll bite - not to argue or cause contention, but simply to support what I believe is the true spirit of the rule - even if this situation is not specifically specified in the rules:

Rule 6.2.5 is the Fed rule that addresses this, but before we jump right to that rule let's remember who this entire rule set (except section 3) is designated for - the pitcher! "Section 2 - Infractions by PITCHER" is again specific to the pitcher: not the shortstop, left-fielder or expendable bench player #3. This specific pitcher rule states the pitcher "has no more than one minute to deliver no more than five balls to the catcher or other teammate." Notice again what is DOES NOT say. Although it specifically states "another player" in this rule when referring to who may RECEIVE the ball, it doesn't say "another player" when it specifies who is THROWING the ball.

Rule 6.5.2 then goes on to discuss changing out the ball. It states "the pitcher may request the other ball BEFORE THROWING A WARM-UP PITCH by giving the ball in HER POSSESSION to the plate umpire. Again, the pitcher is the one throwing the warm-ups in this rule. Nobody else.

Even rule 2-44 defines the pitcher as "the player designated in the scorebook as being responsible FOR DELIVERING (pitching) the ball"

I'm not trying to read into this, but I feel the spirit of the rules embodied in the book is that warm up PITCHES are to be delivered by the PITCHER. That's why they are called a "warm-up pitch!" If I'm missing something in black and white, that's why I'm here: to learn.

Blueump1 · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 28, 2015, 08:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakota

NOTE: Bench personnel are permitted to engage in throwing and running activities during the one minute designated for the pitcher to throw her five warm-up pitches at the beginning of each half inning.[/I]

It doesn't say "throwing activities except pitching"...

No but it does say "designated for THE PITCHER to throw HER warm-up pitches"

chapmaja · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 28, 2015, 08:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueump1

No but it does say "designated for THE PITCHER to throw HER warm-up pitches"

So if the other players were not standing on the pitchers plate when they delivered these throws would they be warm up pitches or not. If we are getting to this point, is it really an issue we should be discussing?

I understand what you are saying, and for the life of me I don't understand the why of the coaches question, but this is a circumstance that I doubt we will hear of again.

Dakota · #12 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 28, 2015, 09:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueump1

No but it does say "designated for THE PITCHER to throw HER warm-up pitches"

There is no requirement for the pitcher to throw any warm ups; but if she does, it must be within this one minute time. Other players, including bench players, may also engage in warm ups during this same time, and they usually do. The only thing unusual about the coach's request is he wants one of his players to throw her warm ups from the pitcher's plate to the catcher. No problem.

MD Longhorn · #13 (**permalink**) Wed Apr 29, 2015, 08:52am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueump1

If I'm missing something in black and white, that's why I'm here: to learn.

You're not missing something, but you're certainly adding to it. There's NOTHING in the book (other than in the Little League baseball book) to justify forcing a player who comes onto the field and throws a ball from the pitcher's plate between innings to continue to pitch the next inning. "Spirit of the rules" is often invoked when actual rules do not support what an umpires wants the rules to be... I'd suggest being careful with using that to justify rulings. One might use "spirit of the rules" to help define vague terms like "immediately" (as in the LBR) or "ordinary effort" / "infielder" (as in the IFF rule)... but you shouldn't use it to justify the creation of a rule that simply isn't written in the book.

This is not the first time this notion has popped up. Trust us - this is not the rule, nor is it the spirit of any rule, nor is it what your rules-makers intend (again... except in LL BB).