SEC Softball: Missouri v S. Carolina 3-8-15

[Tru_in_Blu]

I was watching this game on and off this afternoon/evening.

If anyone else was watching, on the first run scored by SC, there was a throw to the plate attempting to retire the runner. Was that not OBS?

On the third run scored by SC, the PU blew that call badly. The announcers only mentioned it slightly when discussing the replay. Watching the play live, I thought the runner was out. TiVo allowed me to back it up and watch again in slo-mo/stop action.

[RKBUmp]

Was there more than 1 game they played today? I just pulled up the game on espn and the first runs scored by SC was a grand slam with no play at the plate.

[Jake26]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Was there more than 1 game they played today? I just pulled up the game on espn and the first runs scored by SC was a grand slam with no play at the plate.

One game on Saturday, Sunday and Monday. And if you do not have a subscription that includes the SEC, you can't watch it via WatchESPN.

[luvthegame]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Was there more than 1 game they played today? I just pulled up the game on espn and the first runs scored by SC was a grand slam with no play at the plate.

Sc did not hit the grand slam....

[fdt92]

[fdt92]

3rd run

[RKBUmp]

Thats really strange. Opened same exact game link on ESPN I did last night and it brought up a completely different game. Same teams, just different game.

First call, I can only assume the umpire ruled about to receive and since the runner got a hand in on the slide there was no obstruction once the ball got away from the catcher.

Second call, the catcher definitely got the tag on the runner before the plate.

[Crabby_Bob]

Originally Posted by Jake26

... And if you do not have a subscription that includes the SEC, you can't watch it via WatchESPN.

Am I the only one who hates this?

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by fdt92

3rd run

Honest question from a baseball umpire:

Do the NCAA softball powers-that-be actually teach to take the play from where the PU did on the 3rd run? I was watching this game last night and saw this play live. What are the advantages to being up the third base line where he is taking that play? Why not stay on the catcher's glove side hip and have an open look at the play? He missed it because he was completely straight-lined and never saw the tag because the runner was in the way.

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by zm1283

Honest question from a baseball umpire:

Do the NCAA softball powers-that-be actually teach to take the play from where the PU did on the 3rd run? I was watching this game last night and saw this play live. What are the advantages to being up the third base line where he is taking that play? Why not stay on the catcher's glove side hip and have an open look at the play? He missed it because he was completely straight-lined and never saw the tag because the runner was in the way.

The snapshot does not depict proper NCAA plate mechanics. On this play, if an umpire chases, PU would be in a holding zone between third and home, as he would have responsibilities at both bases. If they throw is home, he would be returning from the holding zone to make this call (but not at this angle/distance). If no umpire chased, he should use a Point of Plate holding zone and read/adjust as the play develops.
Reference: CAA manual page 186 (for when a BU does not chase); page 189 for when a BU chases; page 37 for PU holding zones.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

First call, I can only assume the umpire ruled about to receive and since the runner got a hand in on the slide there was no obstruction once the ball got away from the catcher.

Second call, the catcher definitely got the tag on the runner before the plate.

Ah, the first call allows something that ASA and HS do not: the "about to receive" condition. Since I don't work college games, I'm clearly not up on the differences between NCAA and the 2 sanctions I do work.

On the first run, if it were HS or ASA, OBS?

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

Ah, the first call allows something that ASA and HS do not: the "about to receive" condition. Since I don't work college games, I'm clearly not up on the differences between NCAA and the 2 sanctions I do work.

On the first run, if it were HS or ASA, OBS?

RE: HS/ASA obstruction - I'd have to see video of the play for a valid opinion, but from the exact moment captured in the still picture in the thread, the ball is not in possession of the F2, and she is hindering the runner's progress to the next base. If this is my only view of the play, based on a strict rulebook interp, I have OBS in Fed and ASA, and I am awarding home.

Now in NCAA, I might still have OBS: the fielder is no longer "about to receive" a thrown ball in the still photo. Doubtful though depending on when contact occured (was it OBS at the point of contact? If not, I probably wouldn't rule it after the fact on a missed catch unless there was another act of OBS besides the tangle at the plate.) Have to be there or see video for a more nuanced judgment, though.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

The snapshot does not depict proper NCAA plate mechanics. On this play, if an umpire chases, PU would be in a holding zone between third and home, as he would have responsibilities at both bases. If they throw is home, he would be returning from the holding zone to make this call (but not at this angle/distance). If no umpire chased, he should use a Point of Plate holding zone and read/adjust as the play develops.
Reference: CAA manual page 186 (for when a BU does not chase); page 189 for when a BU chases; page 37 for PU holding zones.

To add just a little to this excellent summary, this is poor positioning for a tag play, regardless of base. I judge the umpire to be 12-14 feet minimum from the play (and maybe more depending on how much zoom compression there is in that shot), when ideally he should be within 6-10 feet. He also did not get to a 90-degree angle on either the path of the runner, or the motion of the tag. Correct calling depth on 1st base line extended would have given the umpire the vision to see the tag over the top (90 degrees from path of runner), and 3BLX (90 degrees from motion of tag) would have given the blue pretty much the same picture we can see in the still photo.

That said, sometimes we all get caught a step behind. The important thing is to work on reducing those times to as close as zero as we can get it (especially if you work D1).

[IRISHMAFIA]

AFA umpire's position in the snapshot where the PU is making the call, if he did have 3rd to cover, without seeing the play unfold, I really don't know if he had time to get into a better position. I do, however, agree he is too deep into foul territory no matter what he had to cover.

[EsqUmp]

Umpire in terms of priority. Being too far up the 3rd base line in order to see the runner hit the base is a poor and unacceptable excuse for not being in position for the play at the plate. Umpire must return to the point of the plate and adjust for the play.

You can see a runner hit/miss a base from almost anywhere on the field; and if it's so close that you need a micrometer to tell, you're not calling the out.

The game is about scoring runs and preventing the opponent from scoring runs. There is nothing more fundamental than that. Therefore, poor positioning should never be an excuse for violating the fundamentals of the game.

That said, I only see the tag. I'd presume the ball stayed in the glove and there were no control issues based on others' comments.