Hit by pitch, without contact?

[Jake26]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

I think the situation is actually very simple. The umpires, who likely have not faced this type situation at the college level, kicked the call.

Steve? This was a Super Regional, so you would think ... . But it could be that simple. And if the sequence should not have been allowed, then yes, the scorekeeper has to manufacture something out of thin air.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Jake26

Steve? This was a Super Regional, so you would think ... . But it could be that simple. And if the sequence should not have been allowed, then yes, the scorekeeper has to manufacture something out of thin air.

Are we really thinking that where the umpire forgot that this penalty would not apply during an intentional walk, but the SCOREKEEPER did? Um, no.

If this was not an intentional walk - the penalty of a ball would apply - saying the scorekeeper would invent HBP instead of simply logging the 4 balls (2 thrown, 2 penalty) as a walk ... I have no words for that.

[RKBUmp]

Baylor/Florida first game on today. Wonder if Baylor will try it again, and if so have the crews been instructed to watch for it?

[outathm]

Maybe what happened is she was hit on the hands, and since we ALL know that the "hands are part of the bat", she was given the HBP, even though it didn't make contact.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

I think the situation is actually very simple. The umpires, who likely have not faced this type situation at the college level, kicked the call. The scorer had to put something in the scorebook, and since it can't count as an intentional walk since 4 pitches were not delivered, found the only thing they could think of to indicate the award of first base without the 4 pitches being delivered. NCAA scoring rules, IIRC, require the count to be listed on the play by play, so you can't have a walk with B-B. I think this was a scorer trying to go on the fly with a situation nobody has even seen. I've never seen this, nor have I ever heard of this happening at any level, let alone the highest level of college softball.

Originally Posted by Jake26

Steve? This was a Super Regional, so you would think ... . But it could be that simple. And if the sequence should not have been allowed, then yes, the scorekeeper has to manufacture something out of thin air.

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Are we really thinking that where the umpire forgot that this penalty would not apply during an intentional walk, but the SCOREKEEPER did? Um, no.

If this was not an intentional walk - the penalty of a ball would apply - saying the scorekeeper would invent HBP instead of simply logging the 4 balls (2 thrown, 2 penalty) as a walk ... I have no words for that.

I cannot pull this replay up; get error 303 or something. So going with what has been stated as fact.

I can believe that the PU didn't react to this according to the EFFECT; if not questioned by the OC, it could have easily slipped by. And even if U1 or U3 knew it wasn't handled properly, who wants to be the crew member that calls out your PU on a national broadcast? IMO, there was no way in he!! that scorekeeper knew the EFFECT for this situation, and refused to call it a walk; I've been umpiring 40+ years and have never seen it happen. And couldn't honestly tell you I would have jumped out with that answer in that short moment, either.

I know of no quirk in the rules nor the NCAA scoring rules that explain why this was recorded as HBP. BUT, let's also remember that NCAA institutions are required to use the NCAA approved program, and it is the one converted from baseball, that doesn't track illegal pitches, just "balks" when a runner is awarded an advance on an illegal pitch. My point is that the scorekeeper may well have wanted to put B-B*-B-B*, but that the software simply couldn't handle it.

Personally, I suspect I would have simply recorded B-B-B-B, unless there is some unknown program rule saying to call it HBP; but that certainly doesn't track with the NCAA's never-ending search for absolute statistical accuracy. After all, we are told, that errata may affect that student-athlete's scholarship!!

[teebob21]

Thanks for all the replies. Jake, thanks for reminding me about the ESPN online replays. Unfortunately, I can't get the video to load either, I get the same 303 error. I'd really like to see how it happened. I'll keep trying; error 303 might mean the file got moved. It might get fixed by the ESPN techies; it might not. Thanks, Wikipedia! HTTP 303 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I was able to re-download the rules from Arbiter, and I also found this supplement for NCAA scorers: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/Stats_...s%20manual.pdf There is nothing in here to support the scoring of HBP, as you have all pointed out. Either the scorer invented something, or the software being used had no other way for the batter to be granted 1B on a 2-0 count without a hit or error.

That said, if the defense did attempt a IBB with 2 pitches by exploiting the IP for a throw to a fielder without runners on...wow. I wonder who knows the rule in the dugout. I've only seen that intentional rule violation attempted once before. (If I recall correctly, we disallowed it under the ASA rule which states the penalty for any rule shall not be imposed on the offending team if it would be to their benefit. Head coach was a seasoned umpire and was trying to pull a fast one on us.)

[RKBUmp]

If you cant get video to load, Baylor coach called time and went out to talk to pitcher and catcher. After the conference the catcher moved out for the pitchout and then immediately threw to 3rd base. The camera cuts to the above home plate view of the pitcher as the ball is thrown back to her and she either looks at the catcher or umpire and holds up 2 fingers, which appeared to me to be either asking or verifying that was 2 balls. She threw another pitchout and the catcher again immediatly threw down to 3rd base and the plate umpire pointed to 1st base.

[teebob21]

Shenanigans.