Hit by pitch, without contact?

[Jake26]

Originally Posted by teebob21

I read this write-up of the Baylor/Georgia Super Regional. I didn't see the game, but apparently "hit by pitch, sans contact" is a thing? What the hell is ESPN talking about? Can I get a citation from someone? (My college rulebook suffered mortal injury at the hands of my 2 year old, so I can't look it up right now.)



2014 NCAA softball tournament -- Baylor Bears, Louisiana-Lafayette Ragin' Cajuns both win Saturday to advance to Women's College World Series [WARNING: Video auto-play advertisement on linked page]

I found the official box score too. Sure enough, 1-for-1 with 2 BB and 1 HBP for Hugo. HR in the 1st inning, HBP on 2-0 pitch in the 3rd inning. Is the quirk in the rules "they plunked her with the third pitch", a la rule 11.15.1?
Georgia vs Baylor - DI Softball | NCAA.com

Streaming Online - WatchESPN

Start watching about the 56:00 mark. The first pitch was an intentional ball, and the catcher threw the ball to the third baseman for Ball Two (Rule 10.16). The sequence was repeated on the next pitch to achieve Ball Four. I have no idea about the Effect of 10.16 - why it did not come into play.

Because an Intentional Base on Balls requires four pitches to be delivered to the batter, there must be something in the Scoring Rules that treats this scenario as a Hit Batter.

[RKBUmp]

No idea why they were allowed to do it. The pitcher clearly indicated she knew what they were doing when she held up 2 fingers after the first pitch and throw down to 3rd.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Jake26

Streaming Online - WatchESPN

Start watching about the 56:00 mark. The first pitch was an intentional ball, and the catcher threw the ball to the third baseman for Ball Two (Rule 10.16). The sequence was repeated on the next pitch to achieve Ball Four. I have no idea about the Effect of 10.16 - why it did not come into play.

Because an Intentional Base on Balls requires four pitches to be delivered to the batter, there must be something in the Scoring Rules that treats this scenario as a Hit Batter.

Interesting. What's especially interesting are the comments in the effect section that you refer to.

"In addition, on the first offense, the offending player shall be warned. On subsequent offenses, the offender shall be ejected from the game." I did not see the catcher get ejected.

Also...

EXCEPTION: Intentionally violating the rule in order to walk the batter without pitching shall not result in a ball being awarded to the batter.

[Jake26]

Plus there were no baserunners at the time. If you are afraid of making a mistake with an intended Intentional Ball, throw the pitch halfway up the backstop.

[chapmaja]

I think the situation is actually very simple. The umpires, who likely have not faced this type situation at the college level, kicked the call. The scorer had to put something in the scorebook, and since it can't count as an intentional walk since 4 pitches were not delivered, found the only thing they could think of to indicate the award of first base without the 4 pitches being delivered. NCAA scoring rules, IIRC, require the count to be listed on the play by play, so you can't have a walk with B-B. I think this was a scorer trying to go on the fly with a situation nobody has even seen. I've never seen this, nor have I ever heard of this happening at any level, let alone the highest level of college softball.

[Jake26]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

I think the situation is actually very simple. The umpires, who likely have not faced this type situation at the college level, kicked the call.

Steve? This was a Super Regional, so you would think ... . But it could be that simple. And if the sequence should not have been allowed, then yes, the scorekeeper has to manufacture something out of thin air.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Jake26

Steve? This was a Super Regional, so you would think ... . But it could be that simple. And if the sequence should not have been allowed, then yes, the scorekeeper has to manufacture something out of thin air.

Are we really thinking that where the umpire forgot that this penalty would not apply during an intentional walk, but the SCOREKEEPER did? Um, no.

If this was not an intentional walk - the penalty of a ball would apply - saying the scorekeeper would invent HBP instead of simply logging the 4 balls (2 thrown, 2 penalty) as a walk ... I have no words for that.

[RKBUmp]

Baylor/Florida first game on today. Wonder if Baylor will try it again, and if so have the crews been instructed to watch for it?

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

I think the situation is actually very simple. The umpires, who likely have not faced this type situation at the college level, kicked the call. The scorer had to put something in the scorebook, and since it can't count as an intentional walk since 4 pitches were not delivered, found the only thing they could think of to indicate the award of first base without the 4 pitches being delivered. NCAA scoring rules, IIRC, require the count to be listed on the play by play, so you can't have a walk with B-B. I think this was a scorer trying to go on the fly with a situation nobody has even seen. I've never seen this, nor have I ever heard of this happening at any level, let alone the highest level of college softball.

Originally Posted by Jake26

Steve? This was a Super Regional, so you would think ... . But it could be that simple. And if the sequence should not have been allowed, then yes, the scorekeeper has to manufacture something out of thin air.

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Are we really thinking that where the umpire forgot that this penalty would not apply during an intentional walk, but the SCOREKEEPER did? Um, no.

If this was not an intentional walk - the penalty of a ball would apply - saying the scorekeeper would invent HBP instead of simply logging the 4 balls (2 thrown, 2 penalty) as a walk ... I have no words for that.

I cannot pull this replay up; get error 303 or something. So going with what has been stated as fact.

I can believe that the PU didn't react to this according to the EFFECT; if not questioned by the OC, it could have easily slipped by. And even if U1 or U3 knew it wasn't handled properly, who wants to be the crew member that calls out your PU on a national broadcast? IMO, there was no way in he!! that scorekeeper knew the EFFECT for this situation, and refused to call it a walk; I've been umpiring 40+ years and have never seen it happen. And couldn't honestly tell you I would have jumped out with that answer in that short moment, either.

I know of no quirk in the rules nor the NCAA scoring rules that explain why this was recorded as HBP. BUT, let's also remember that NCAA institutions are required to use the NCAA approved program, and it is the one converted from baseball, that doesn't track illegal pitches, just "balks" when a runner is awarded an advance on an illegal pitch. My point is that the scorekeeper may well have wanted to put B-B*-B-B*, but that the software simply couldn't handle it.

Personally, I suspect I would have simply recorded B-B-B-B, unless there is some unknown program rule saying to call it HBP; but that certainly doesn't track with the NCAA's never-ending search for absolute statistical accuracy. After all, we are told, that errata may affect that student-athlete's scholarship!!

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

I think this was a scorer trying to go on the fly with a situation nobody has even seen. I've never seen this, nor have I ever heard of this happening at any level, let alone the highest level of college softball.

Puhleeze. I'd believe that if this was a Mom keeping score at her son's LL Tee Ball game.

The scorekeeper is required to keep an accurate account of the game. Putting down a HBP when that never happened is derelict in the scorekeeper's duties. Someone given the responsibility for keeping the official scoring of an NCAA Super-Regional is going to be very knowledgeable of the rules. Likely, he/she would annotate "B*" for the second ball, and then "*-10.16 Violation" somewhere on the scoresheet to clarify this was not an ordinary pitch out of the strike zone.