D3K differences
.I work occassionaly with a group of umpires at our local park. Multiple softball and baseball leagues. One softball league uses rules from ASA and one from usssa. Our baseball leagues uses OBR (Legion). I have only ever been sanctioned for fed and NCAA softball and both were 5+ years ago.
Under the various codes when is a batter declared out after a dropped 3rd strike if s/he does not go to first? Leaves home area? Enters dugout? "Abandons" (interp please)? I am doing a little presentation on D3K differences, interpretations, and mechanics at next Wednesday's meeting because the coaches complained to our uic that there wasn't consistency, so we are trying to line up our ducks.thanks for your time |
FED, ASA and USSSA are all when the batter/runner enters the dugout or dead ball territory. USSSA adds the provision also if all the infielders have left the diamond.
Fixed it. |
You may consider this just semantics, but I believe rule terminology is important.
No batter is ever out for entering the dugout. If she/he is still a batter, you put her/him back up to bat. However, after strike 3 is dropped, the batter becomes a batter-runner. A batter-runner is out when they abandon the effort to first base by entering dead ball territory (be it dugout, or go out another gate). |
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The "abandon" interp deals with the umpire judging that the BR has exhibited no effort to advance to first, mostly when the inning ends. For example, if the BR happens to be the shortstop, and he/she starts heading for that position while a teammate brings him/her the glove, you can easily judge that the BR has abandoned the effort to advance. Judgments on abandonment get more tricky when the BR stays near home plate or heads for his/her dugout. Most umpires won't make an out call until the BR clearly shows no intent to go to first. |
OBR? They do softball now? :)
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The LL Softball rule book is virtually verbatim with the Baseball counterpart, which is OBR based. LL has gotten better in changing the softball rules to be more in line with ASA. But for a while, LL Softball was nothing more than LL Baseball with a larger ball and underhand pitching. I only brought it up because the OP mentioned OBR. Figured he wanted to know the differences for both sports. |
Had this a few weeks ago in HS.
Nobody on, 2 out. D3K, batter-runner (since it was a D3K) starts walking toward the first base dugout, not toward the base. The defense walks toward their dugout and huddles inside live ball territory. The first base coach all the while is yelling at the batter to run to first. about 2 steps from the dugout, the BR takes off to first. I call her safe, then she takes off for second and third while the defense comes on the field to get the ball the catcher had rolled to the pitching circle. The DC coach comes out to argue. The ruling from the casebook is pretty clear. The BR did not enter dead ball territory, nor did the infields ever leave the diamond (they stayed in live ball territory to huddle). The third ruling from the casebook would not apply since it is another pitching being delivered. The diamond, for this casebook ruling is defined as live ball territory. I spent several minutes trying to explain this call to the coach after the game as well, using the rulebook as evidence. As far as I know, the rule codes are pretty similar on when a BR is out on a D3K. |
Thank you all for your brief responses.
I was basically asking for the distinction between ASA and USSSA (softball) and OBR (baseball). Since I haven't done much more than "volunteer" in umpire world for 5 years I have reverted to some laymen terms. My apologies...b/r not batter... |
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The only real "issue" I've noticed with huddles is when the defensive team has one before they go out to their positions. That tends to slow the game down. |
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There is nothing in the books of which I am aware stating that the defense and offense must be prepared to play after one minute of the new inning. |
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The note seems to apply to defensive players, but nowhere that I can find does it cover players coming off the field into the bench area. I understand the justification for it, but at the same time it is again one of those things that really doesn't seem to be clear with the rules. I find 3-6-6 to mean that players and bench personnel shall stay in the dugout/bench area during the time they are not on the field. This prohibits them from going to the stands or being in live ball territory during play. However, while doing some looking I did find this little tidbit, which I don't think gets enforced at all in Michigan. "2. HUDDLES In the interest of minimizing risk to participants, teams should not huddle on the field after a third out while the other team is warming up. During the game, team huddles between players on the field are never considered charged conferences. These huddles should be allowed to the extent that they do not violate any of the rules of the game such as the one minute between innings and the 20 seconds a pitcher has to pitch after receiving the ball. Last year’s point of emphasis was never intended to prohibit team huddles, but merely to ensure they were occurring within existing rules.This was apparently a POE in 2006, before I returned to umpiring. |
I remember that POE. The idea was that you didn't want kids with their backs to the infield, oblivious to what was going on behind them, while balls were whizzing around.
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The POE is conflicting. It says teams SHOULD not huddle. And then it says if they do, they should not violate any rules regarding time limits, etc.
In our state, it's no longer emphasized, as far as I can tell. Teams huddle right next to their dugout entrance, and I've never seen any umpires tell them to stop. It seems to me if there was a real concern, then the POE would still be, well, emphasized, and other activities outside of the dugout, like running to the foul poles as I previously mentioned, should also be prohibited and removed from the rule. |
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