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-   -   Run Scores? (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/97892-run-scores.html)

chapmaja Mon May 19, 2014 10:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 934360)
If they can make a throw to 1B to tag a RUNNER before the runner from 2B gets to the plate, they probably had time to throw home for a play.
Reread the post, then try to answer.

LIUmp Tue May 20, 2014 03:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chapmaja (Post 934441)
Reread the post, then try to answer.
He's right. This is a made up play, and in reality NO team will do what is stated here. If there's a play at home on the winning run, they're throwing home.

youngump Tue May 20, 2014 01:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LIUmp (Post 934451)
He's right. This is a made up play, and in reality NO team will do what is stated here. If there's a play at home on the winning run, they're throwing home.
Yes, it is. But so what. The answer to the question is easy. If the third out occurs before a run scores the run doesn't count. Doesn't matter if it is because of insane fielding or not.

MD Longhorn Tue May 20, 2014 02:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngump (Post 934490)
Yes, it is. But so what. The answer to the question is easy. If the third out occurs before a run scores the run doesn't count. Doesn't matter if it is because of insane fielding or not.
Yes. So easy that asking it serves no purpose. We all know the answer to this one - it did not contribute to the conversation. (in a roundabout way, I agree with your "so what" on this one! :) )

IRISHMAFIA Tue May 20, 2014 06:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngump (Post 934490)
Yes, it is. But so what. The answer to the question is easy. If the third out occurs before a run scores the run doesn't count. Doesn't matter if it is because of insane fielding or not.
I agree, but it is bad form. There is a reason clinicians avoid TWP and unlikely what if scenarios, they have no purpose in a valid discussion and provide nothing, but confusion among those who are trying to learn.

LIUmp Wed May 21, 2014 11:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngump (Post 934490)
Yes, it is. But so what. The answer to the question is easy. If the third out occurs before a run scores the run doesn't count. Doesn't matter if it is because of insane fielding or not.
Forgive me - I figured the answer to the question was stated, a few times in this thread. Coming up with a what if and then being snippy in their response caused my misguided post.

I have been dealing with a LOT of this all year - I am learning that I can't answer all what ifs, nor do I want to.

Manny A Wed May 21, 2014 11:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 933969)
The rules regarding re-instating forces are in the section regarding runners. These same rules are not mirrored in the section regarding batter-runner (even though most rules ARE mirrored there). This indicates to me that there's nothing to reinstate here. BR HAS reached first base. The BR was not put out prior to reaching first base. I see no rules justification for nullifying this run. In any of the rulesets to be honest.
So, to follow-up on this premise, if the BR happens to retreat back toward home for whatever reason, she cannot be retired by tagging first base? She has to be tagged while off the base?

I find this premise hard to believe. The rules clearly state that a runner who scores and then retreats back to third base does not nullify the touch of home. There is nothing that says a BR who touches first and then retreats back toward home does not nullify the touch of first. If this were true, you would expect a similar ruling.

MD Longhorn Wed May 21, 2014 12:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A (Post 934577)
So, to follow-up on this premise, if the BR happens to retreat back toward home for whatever reason, she cannot be retired by tagging first base? She has to be tagged while off the base?

I find this premise hard to believe. The rules clearly state that a runner who scores and then retreats back to third base does not nullify the touch of home. There is nothing that says a BR who touches first and then retreats back toward home does not nullify the touch of first. If this were true, you would expect a similar ruling.
Having opinions is great... and this is a good discussion. But I must ask - can you point to any rule that backs up your opinion?

Not saying you can't... but I can't.

Manny A Wed May 21, 2014 02:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 934586)
Having opinions is great... and this is a good discussion. But I must ask - can you point to any rule that backs up your opinion?

Not saying you can't... but I can't.
Neither can I.

A weak argument could be made that once the BR touches first, she loses her status as a BR, and now becomes a runner, by ASA definitions. So she now comes under the same guidelines as other runners.......oh, never mind.

IRISHMAFIA Wed May 21, 2014 09:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A (Post 934577)
So, to follow-up on this premise, if the BR happens to retreat back toward home for whatever reason, she cannot be retired by tagging first base? She has to be tagged while off the base?

I find this premise hard to believe. The rules clearly state that a runner who scores and then retreats back to third base does not nullify the touch of home. There is nothing that says a BR who touches first and then retreats back toward home does not nullify the touch of first. If this were true, you would expect a similar ruling.
The runner is not restricted to any path. And just like you cannot just touch the base when the runner rounds it to put him/her out, you must tag the runner off the base to retire him/her. And there is no "force" to reinstate.


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