Run Scores?
 

NFHS Rules (a play from the Florida HS Finals)

R1 on 3B, R2 on 2B, two outs. Batter hits a short fly ball that F5 totally misjudges in the wind. Ball falls untouched on the line a foot in front of 3B. R1 advances and touches home plate. BR advances to 1B and touches and crosses the bag.

Then she (apparently) listened to the defensive team in the first base dugout and their vocal fans who were calling for a foul ball. She began walking back toward the plate area. F1 (not yet in the circle) throws to F3 who tags BR two steps on the home plate side of first.

Does the run score? :cool:

BR safely reached 1B. Score the run.

What was her coach doing??

Anyway, is there a case for obstruction?

If not, run does not score since the force was reinstated. (Cue the discussion about whether the BR is "forced".)

Yelling "Stay here! Stay here!"

No.

Rule 9-1.1 Exceptions a and d indicate a difference between runners who were forced and a batter runner. Likewise, 2-24.4 talks about "reinstatement of force" applying to forced runners, does not mention the BR.

Call on the field (correct in my opinion) was that the "Run Scores."

I missed that one, Which game was that? (I have several on tape)

What about the rest of the story? Fair or foul?:eek:

Perhaps - but since it wasn't mentioned I'm going to assume the umpire on the spot didn't believe so.

The rules regarding re-instating forces are in the section regarding runners. These same rules are not mirrored in the section regarding batter-runner (even though most rules ARE mirrored there). This indicates to me that there's nothing to reinstate here. BR HAS reached first base. The BR was not put out prior to reaching first base. I see no rules justification for nullifying this run. In any of the rulesets to be honest.

As stated, assuming ball was fair.

No obstruction, it sounded more like just fans being fans and players being players...not trying to confuse the base runner (Uhhh...where was her
1b coach, anyway?)

No force and none should have been re-instated so yeah, run's in.
Weird for a Championship game...but weird is why we come here I guess :-)

Creekside vs. Pembroke Pines 6A Semifinal.

Fair ball (foul player). Hit on the line and actually bounced into the inside corner of the base. Strong breeze was blowing toward RF.

Seems to be the point.

The OP says nothing about the ball being in the circle, but that would not change the run decision.

Mentioned that because some observers thought that maybe she was out for a circle violation. Again, a timing play and the run would have scored.

In the 1A Final (smallest schools, with some 7th and 8th graders on the rosters) a girl stole second, then was thrown out sprinting back to first. We didn't have any CLUE why she would have done that.

If they can make a throw to 1B to tag a RUNNER before the runner from 2B gets to the plate, they probably had time to throw home for a play.

Reread the post, then try to answer.

He's right. This is a made up play, and in reality NO team will do what is stated here. If there's a play at home on the winning run, they're throwing home.

Yes, it is. But so what. The answer to the question is easy. If the third out occurs before a run scores the run doesn't count. Doesn't matter if it is because of insane fielding or not.

Yes. So easy that asking it serves no purpose. We all know the answer to this one - it did not contribute to the conversation. (in a roundabout way, I agree with your "so what" on this one! :) )

I agree, but it is bad form. There is a reason clinicians avoid TWP and unlikely what if scenarios, they have no purpose in a valid discussion and provide nothing, but confusion among those who are trying to learn.

Forgive me - I figured the answer to the question was stated, a few times in this thread. Coming up with a what if and then being snippy in their response caused my misguided post.

I have been dealing with a LOT of this all year - I am learning that I can't answer all what ifs, nor do I want to.

So, to follow-up on this premise, if the BR happens to retreat back toward home for whatever reason, she cannot be retired by tagging first base? She has to be tagged while off the base?

I find this premise hard to believe. The rules clearly state that a runner who scores and then retreats back to third base does not nullify the touch of home. There is nothing that says a BR who touches first and then retreats back toward home does not nullify the touch of first. If this were true, you would expect a similar ruling.

Having opinions is great... and this is a good discussion. But I must ask - can you point to any rule that backs up your opinion?

Not saying you can't... but I can't.

Neither can I.

A weak argument could be made that once the BR touches first, she loses her status as a BR, and now becomes a runner, by ASA definitions. So she now comes under the same guidelines as other runners.......oh, never mind.

The runner is not restricted to any path. And just like you cannot just touch the base when the runner rounds it to put him/her out, you must tag the runner off the base to retire him/her. And there is no "force" to reinstate.