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Skahtboi Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:50am

Seriously?
 
According to MLB this is no longer an out. How long until it filters down to us???

Rangers manager Ron Washington ejected after call is overturned Monday | Mariners.com: News

RKBUmp Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:23am

Certainly looks like a catch and a loss of the ball on transfer to throwing hand to me. Saw another last week on a play at 2nd the ruled no catch. What is this definition in MLB? Havent seen it.

Insane Blue Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:26am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skahtboi (Post 931818)
According to MLB this is no longer an out. How long until it filters down to us???

Rangers manager Ron Washington ejected after call is overturned Monday | Mariners.com: News

It all ready is with us. the catcher flipped the ball to his hand bobbled it so he has no control.

Skahtboi Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:32am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insane Blue (Post 931821)
It all ready is with us. the catcher flipped the ball to his hand bobbled it so he has no control.

But the catch is a catch. What if the play ended with the catch? Are you going to require a transfer to see if the catch was legit????

I will continue to rule on the catch, as an umpire, and not on the transfer.

Skahtboi Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:33am

More exhibits as to just how badly MLB umpires have lost their minds:

Baseball’s New Strategy: Drop the Ball on Purpose | FanGraphs Baseball

RKBUmp Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:40am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insane Blue (Post 931821)
It all ready is with us. the catcher flipped the ball to his hand bobbled it so he has no control.

By that definition then, even if the catcher had controlled the ball with the throwing hand it should not be an out because control was not established until after he removed his foot from the base.

Insane Blue Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skahtboi (Post 931822)
But the catch is a catch. What if the play ended with the catch? Are you going to require a transfer to see if the catch was legit????

I will continue to rule on the catch, as an umpire, and not on the transfer.

just going by the book.

3afan Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:23pm

the flip of the ball to the throwing hand is a 'voluntary release' ... catch!

Manny A Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RKBUmp (Post 931820)
What is this definition in MLB? Havent seen it.

This is what someone posted on the baseball discussion board. It apparently comes from the Wendlestedt Umpire School.

Quote:

"In determining whether a fielder drops the ball 'while in the act of making a throw following the catch' in accordance with Rule 2.00, the umpires will determine whether the fielder obtained possession of a ball in flight but dropped the ball while in the act of making a throw during the momentum of the catch. For example, if the shortstop, in an effort to turn a double play, throws to the second baseman, who drops the ball while in the act of drawing back his arm to make a throw to first base, the second baseman shall be adjudged to have had secure control of the ball and thus the ball shall be adjudged to have been caught by the second baseman. However, it shall not be adjudged to be a catch if, while in the act of making a throw during the momentum of the catch, the fielder loses possession of the ball in the transfer (e.g., flip from the glove) before he secures the ball with his throwing hand.

"Our emphasis: The 'flip' itself is not deemed a voluntary release, even though it may be a voluntary action. This is an update you will find in the 2014 Rules and Interpretations Manual. We have removed the exclusive interpretation offered for a number of year providing that it only be an attempted voluntary release. This is no longer the case. The release must be voluntary. Additionally, this interpretation has been merged with a tag of a base as well on the front end of a double play attempt. He must secure the ball in his throwing hand before it will be deemed secure possession was made."

RKBUmp Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:46pm

Did that happen to come from the same person who wrote the NFHS courtesy runner interpretation over on the baseball board? :eek:

MD Longhorn Tue Apr 15, 2014 01:07pm

Here's what I'm waiting for.

Bases loaded, no outs. Shallow fly ball to right field. F9 appears to catch the ball, then jogs to the pitcher. Then flips the ball to his throwing hand so he can hand it to the pitcher - but he fails to catch the flip.

No catch.

Pitcher gets the ball, they then throw home, then 3rd, then 2nd. Triple play.

Manny A Tue Apr 15, 2014 01:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RKBUmp (Post 931832)
Did that happen to come from the same person who wrote the NFHS courtesy runner interpretation over on the baseball board? :eek:

It doesn't matter. It's obvious that the MLB replay officials are going by it.

RKBUmp Tue Apr 15, 2014 01:35pm

Intersting that they appear to be going by some rule from an umpire school when the following is taken directly from the MLB rulebook posted on the MLB website.

Quote:

If the fielder has made the catch and drops the ball while in the act of making a throw following the catch, the ball shall be adjudged to have been caught.

IRISHMAFIA Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:45am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Insane Blue (Post 931821)
It all ready is with us. the catcher flipped the ball to his hand bobbled it so he has no control.

Bullshit. The fact that the catcher COULD flip the ball from glove to bare hand demonstrates control.

IRISHMAFIA Thu Apr 17, 2014 11:50am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skahtboi (Post 931818)
According to MLB this is no longer an out. How long until it filters down to us???

Rangers manager Ron Washington ejected after call is overturned Monday | Mariners.com: News

Y'all gotta forget MLB as a valid rule source. Just because there is a lot of money involved does not make it better or more authoritative than any other organization.

RadioBlue Thu Apr 17, 2014 01:31pm

Here's a great explanation of the new catch/transfer interpretation. The Wendlestedt quote is a result of the new MLB intreptation which is contained in the link below:

New 2014 Rule Interpretation: Catch/Transfer Explained | Close Call Sports & Umpire Ejection Fantasy League

gsf23 Sat Apr 19, 2014 03:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by RKBUmp (Post 931837)
Intersting that they appear to be going by some rule from an umpire school when the following is taken directly from the MLB rulebook posted on the MLB website.

Yes, but MLB has changed its interpretation of that rule. Before, the transfer from the glove to the throwing hand was considered part of the throw, that is why it was still ruled a catch before. MLB is now saying that the catch is not complete UNTIL the ball is secured in the throwing hand. So now transferring the ball from the glove to the throwing hand is considered part of the catch, not the throw so the catch is not complete until the transfer is complete.

IRISHMAFIA Sat Apr 19, 2014 04:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsf23 (Post 932251)
Yes, but MLB has changed its interpretation of that rule. Before, the transfer from the glove to the throwing hand was considered part of the throw, that is why it was still ruled a catch before. MLB is now saying that the catch is not complete UNTIL the ball is secured in the throwing hand. So now transferring the ball from the glove to the throwing hand is considered part of the catch, not the throw so the catch is not complete until the transfer is complete.

Doesn't make it right or intelligent. Sounds like a lazy man's change and IMO, a cowardly interpretation

Cannot wait until a charging OF snags one off the top of his shoe and on the way to the dugout voluntarily on the mound or flips it to a bat/ball boy from the glove and the manager demands a replay to show that the OF never showed control of the ball in the bare hand and, BTW, his runner just crossed the plate.

But it doesn't surprise me, MLB hasn't been about the game for quite a while now.

MD Longhorn Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:35am

I predict this "change" won't survive the year. There is NO ONE in favor of this new way of interpreting things.

SethPDX Fri Apr 25, 2014 03:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 932334)
I predict this "change" won't survive the year. There is NO ONE in favor of this new way of interpreting things.

I predict you're right. ;)

MLB clarifies rule on transfer of ball from glove to hand | MLB.com: News

Skahtboi Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SethPDX (Post 932689)


It took them long enough to finally see their last interp had absolutely no support in the rules.

soundedlikeastrike Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:28am

Well I disagree with Joe to this degree, the umpires I've seen have called it the same on the field, but the reviewers were turning it over. So, I think the only ones hosed up were the reviewers..


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