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-   -   Why different rulesets? (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/97725-why-different-rulesets.html)

bsnalex Thu Apr 10, 2014 08:42am

Why different rulesets?
 
This has been bugging me for a while - and it's not limited to softball, it's effectively every sport there is (except soccer).

But why in America do leagues and systems not play by rulesets that have been codified by the international governing body for the sport? I mean, the NBA doesn't play by FIBA rules, the NHL has it's own code. Softball has to be the worst perpetrators, having different rule sets for High School, NCAA, adult amateur etc. We've got NFHS, ASA, NCAA.

Why doesn't every system out there just play by ISF? At their hearts, the rules of the game are the same, but then each ruleset has variations on the semantics of the game.

It just frustrates me from time to time--selfishly because my fed plays ISF so alot of these rulesets are lost on me and the board doesn't give me the help i usually need :D

3afan Thu Apr 10, 2014 09:20am

that would be so nice!

Manny A Thu Apr 10, 2014 09:36am

There are different rule sets because there are different governing bodies dealing with different populations. You really can't have the same rule set apply for college women, 10 year-old girls, and 65 year-old men.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Thu Apr 10, 2014 09:36am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsnalex (Post 931236)
This has been bugging me for a while - and it's not limited to softball, it's effectively every sport there is (except soccer).

But why in America do leagues and systems not play by rulesets that have been codified by the international governing body for the sport? I mean, the NBA doesn't play by FIBA rules, the NHL has it's own code. Softball has to be the worst perpetrators, having different rule sets for High School, NCAA, adult amateur etc. We've got NFHS, ASA, NCAA.

Why doesn't every system out there just play by ISF? At their hearts, the rules of the game are the same, but then each ruleset has variations on the semantics of the game.

It just frustrates me from time to time--selfishly because my fed plays ISF so alot of these rulesets are lost on me and the board doesn't give me the help i usually need :D



NFHS and NCAA has its on set of rules for soccer too.

MTD, Sr.

Rich Ives Thu Apr 10, 2014 09:40am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsnalex (Post 931236)
This has been bugging me for a while - and it's not limited to softball, it's effectively every sport there is (except soccer).

But why in America do leagues and systems not play by rulesets that have been codified by the international governing body for the sport? I mean, the NBA doesn't play by FIBA rules, the NHL has it's own code. Softball has to be the worst perpetrators, having different rule sets for High School, NCAA, adult amateur etc. We've got NFHS, ASA, NCAA.

Why doesn't every system out there just play by ISF? At their hearts, the rules of the game are the same, but then each rule set has variations on the semantics of the game.

It just frustrates me from time to time--selfishly because my fed plays ISF so alot of these rulesets are lost on me and the board doesn't give me the help i usually need :D

Basketball was invented in the US. Why doesn't FIBA use USA rules?

Hockey was invented in Canada - why does some international group get to usurp the rules?

If soccer rules don't differ why are the field, ball, and goal sizes different by age? (If they are integrated into the rule book, why were the changes made?) And is there mandatory play in all soccer games?

Do you really want 8 year-old kids playing baseball on a 90' diamond with no pitching limits and no mandatory play?

Do you really want 8 year olds bouncing/rolling the ball to the plate from the international softball pitching distance?

Games are played by players of vastly differing ages and skills. Rules get adjusted to accommodate this.

Tru_in_Blu Thu Apr 10, 2014 09:42am

Not to hijack, and mostly rhetorical...but why

don't the wheels from my old Toyota fit on my newer Honda?

is it that every time I get a new cell phone, I need a new car charger?

aren't umpire plate shoes, sneakers, whatever, consistent in size? (Include Fech umpire pants.)

won't my 8-track tapes play in my blu-ray player? :confused::D

Andy Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:44am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny A (Post 931244)
...You really can't have the same rule set apply for college women, 10 year-old girls, and 65 year-old men.

This is exactly what the ASA ruleset does...with specific allowances for different levels of ability based on age and gender.....

Dakota Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny A (Post 931244)
...You really can't have the same rule set apply for college women, 10 year-old girls, and 65 year-old men.

You mean like ASA does?

(Edit: Andy beat me to it. That's what I get for replying before reading the whole thread...)

IRISHMAFIA Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsnalex (Post 931236)
This has been bugging me for a while - and it's not limited to softball, it's effectively every sport there is (except soccer).

But why in America do leagues and systems not play by rulesets that have been codified by the international governing body for the sport? I mean, the NBA doesn't play by FIBA rules, the NHL has it's own code. Softball has to be the worst perpetrators, having different rule sets for High School, NCAA, adult amateur etc. We've got NFHS, ASA, NCAA.

Why doesn't every system out there just play by ISF? At their hearts, the rules of the game are the same, but then each ruleset has variations on the semantics of the game.

It just frustrates me from time to time--selfishly because my fed plays ISF so alot of these rulesets are lost on me and the board doesn't give me the help i usually need :D

Because in this country there is a mind set that if I don't get what I want, I'm taking my bat and ball and finding other people who WILL do it my way.

Or to quote Sheldon Cooper, "they're having fun wrong" :)

Rich Ives Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy (Post 931276)
This is exactly what the ASA ruleset does...with specific allowances for different levels of ability based on age and gender.....

But that's just it - there are allowances which means the rules aren't the same for the different circumstances.

bsnalex Fri Apr 11, 2014 05:05am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Ives (Post 931339)
But that's just it - there are allowances which means the rules aren't the same for the different circumstances.

I'm not talking about things like field size, length of game, etc. Clearly you can't have 8 year olds playing on the same field size for the same length as adults. Regulations is one thing. Rules is another.

Rulesets such as HS and NCAA don't need to be different. Take this for example: Strike Zone in ASA,NFHS, ISF is defined as armpits to top of knees, while NCAA defines it as top of batter's sternum, which is actually around 3 inches higher. Softball is one game. The strike zone is the strike zone is the strike zone. Or it should be.

I know I'm being pedantic and arguing for the sake of being contentious, so sorry.

My least favourite is in the fed I work in, which is mostly adult coed rec, I'm working a tournament this weekend that locally their rule is 12" ball for men and 11" ball for women, and the first base coach is responsible for swapping the ball for each batter (!) The local league (thankfully not mine) argues that the 11" ball travels further so women hit more to the same level as men. In my mind all that does is alter the game to suit the players, rather than the players training harder to play within the rules.

EsqUmp Fri Apr 11, 2014 06:21am

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 931285)
Because in this country there is a mind set that if I don't get what I want, I'm taking my bat and ball and finding other people who WILL do it my way.

Or to quote Sheldon Cooper, "they're having fun wrong" :)

Because this is not a communist state seems to be more of a realistic answer. I see teams developing because of upset mom & pops, but not entire organizations.

Boxers vs. Briefs
Plasma vs. LCD
Ford vs. Chevy

EsqUmp Fri Apr 11, 2014 06:29am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsnalex (Post 931390)
Rulesets such as HS and NCAA don't need to be different. Take this for example: Strike Zone in ASA,NFHS, ISF is defined as armpits to top of knees, while NCAA defines it as top of batter's sternum, which is actually around 3 inches higher. Softball is one game. The strike zone is the strike zone is the strike zone. Or it should be.

You can't see how in certain cases it might be reasonable to have a different penalty for a 13 year old 7th grader than a 22 year hold college senior?

And by the way, your NCAA strike zone is wrong. It isn't the TOP of the batter's sternum, it is the BOTTOM of the sternum. The strike zone is lower in NCAA than other codes, though most umpires tend to call a strike zone that is not as high as what is described in the rules books.

IRISHMAFIA Fri Apr 11, 2014 07:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by EsqUmp (Post 931391)
Because this is not a communist state seems to be more of a realistic answer.

You mean like the American Bar Association? But really, communist? Are you kidding? This country demonstrates a higher level of socialism and communistic attitudes than most countries we've supposedly "saved" from such evils.

Quote:

I see teams developing because of upset mom & pops, but not entire organizations.
Then you haven't been paying attention

Manny A Fri Apr 11, 2014 07:44am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakota (Post 931282)
You mean like ASA does?

(Edit: Andy beat me to it. That's what I get for replying before reading the whole thread...)

That's my point. ASA accommodates for different participants and different levels of play by using different rules within their overarching rule set. You can't expect ASA to have one set of rules for all, as the OP desires. And you can't expect NFHS, NCAA, PONY, etc., to do the same with their respective rules.


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