FOUL BALL - Catch?

[WestMichBlue]

ASA Women's FB Rec League. A partner that stubbornly insisted on calling anything in the air outside the lines as a foul ball. (The more we argued, the more I showed him the rules, even put them on paper - the madder he got and the louder he made the calls.) So how do we handle the following two situations?

A) One out, R1 on 1B, 2 strikes on batter, R1 stealing on the pitch, batter hits foul tip. PU yells "FOUL BALL, strike three" while flicking his finger tips. F2 throws to 2B, R1 pulls up upon hearing Foul Ball, and is easily tagged. I have to call her out, and then the yelling starts. If that had been a defensive player that yelled Foul Ball we would have Verbal Obstruction. But what do I do with the umpire's call?

B) No outs, R1 on 3B, batter hits blooper over 1B, F4 going hard for the ball, R1 tagging up. On the catch R1 is off for home and PU yells "FOUL BALL - Catch!" R1 hesitates, looks unsure, coach yells for her to go home, she starts but F4 is running back into infield so R1 returns to 3B.

Now what?

WMB

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by WestMichBlue
ASA Women's FB Rec League. A partner that stubbornly insisted on calling anything in the air outside the lines as a foul ball. (The more we argued, the more I showed him the rules, even put them on paper - the madder he got and the louder he made the calls.) So how do we handle the following two situations?

A) One out, R1 on 1B, 2 strikes on batter, R1 stealing on the pitch, batter hits foul tip. PU yells "FOUL BALL, strike three" while flicking his finger tips. F2 throws to 2B, R1 pulls up upon hearing Foul Ball, and is easily tagged. I have to call her out, and then the yelling starts. If that had been a defensive player that yelled Foul Ball we would have Verbal Obstruction. But what do I do with the umpire's call?

Speaking ASA

If it was obvious the runner checked up, rule that the umpire's indiscretion place the runner in jeopardy and return her to 1B.

B) No outs, R1 on 3B, batter hits blooper over 1B, F4 going hard for the ball, R1 tagging up. On the catch R1 is off for home and PU yells "FOUL BALL - Catch!" R1 hesitates, looks unsure, coach yells for her to go home, she starts but F4 is running back into infield so R1 returns to 3B.

Now what?

WMB

Nothing. While the umpire is incorrect on his calls, the runner, in spite of direction from the coach chose to return to the base. Since the runner was not put out, there was no jeopardy. Remember, there is no such animal as umpire obstruction.

If you have a rating system in place, your partner needs to be gigged on this. He is placing his ignorance ahead of the game he is working as his umpiring seems to be more of an disservice to the teams than service.

I could understand mistakes from relatively new umpires, but a veteran who should already know the correct manner in which to make these calls and has been informed of his errors shouldn't be tolerated.

[CecilOne]

Unfortunately, "FOUL BALL" is the suicide call, the one we can't undo, the bell we can't unring.

In both cases, the runners have to be treated as if it really were a foul ball, both returned to where they were (with many apologies). It's one of those umpire discretion things, to correct an umpire error in the fairest manner possible.
The batters are different. They actually were put out, so I think we could let those stand.

[bethsdad]

OK , I was watching a game a couple years ago.Batter hits line drive down first base line that hits the edge of grass. Plate ump yells foul. Ball bounces straight to firstbaseman in fair territory. Now what do you do? Sorry! It was fair

[Edited by bethsdad on Aug 17th, 2003 at 04:49 PM]

[SC Ump]

Originally posted by bethsdad
OK , I was watching a game a couple years ago.Batter hits line drive down first base line that hits the edge of grass. Plate ump yells foul. Ball bounces straight to firstbaseman in fair territory. Now what do you do?

From your quote, I do not know whether the ball was truly fair or fail. If you mean that it hit some edge of the grass that caused it to bounce back into fair territory before it passed the first base bag, then I understand the problem you are talking about.

Most softball and baseball organizations have published cases/interpretations/rulings that direct an umpire as to what to do in their organization if a fair ball is hit and an umpire yells, "foul ball" improperly. Most state that if the offensive and defensive players do not react the umpire's call and continue to play, that the play stands. However, if some players react, then different organizations will handle it differently. Some state that the ball is then considered "foul" and some state that the runners should be place at the place where the umpire believes they would have been should the call not have been made.

I personally do not worry about what to do because I don't yell foul unless I am absolutely positive it has already become foul. If I have a partner that screws up like discussed in this thread, I (1) let them take the heat for their screw ups since it is already over with and there isn't a thing I can do about it, and (2) notify our umpiring organization that there is more training necessary for this particular umpire.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by bethsdad
OK , I was watching a game a couple years ago.Batter hits line drive down first base line that hits the edge of grass. Plate ump yells foul. Ball bounces straight to firstbaseman in fair territory. Now what do you do?

The location of the first baseman is irrelevant. You need to tell us where the ball crossed the foul line in relation to first base.

[greymule]

Do you know what this ump's reasoning is for thinking that the most important thing people need to know on a foul fly is that it's foul? After all, on a caught fly ball, fair or foul is irrelevant to the game and matters only to the scorer (if he cares).

And a foul tip is not a foul ball. Does he explain his reasoning for calling it such?

I once saw an ump make a premature "foul" call on a long drive down the left-field line. The ball appeared to be falling 10 or 12 feet foul, but after he made the call, it caught some kind of air pocket or something and fell about 6 feet fair. Luckily for him, the offended team was far ahead.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Listen Buddy. You are going to quit screwing this up, or one of a couple things are going to happen....

When you call foul ball the ball is dead. No runner's can advance on a caught foul ball because you have called foul and play must now stop.

A foul tip is not a foul ball. The defense (catcher) has the ball in his hand and can make a play on a runner that is attempting to steal. If you call foul ball, the play is dead; runner must go back and the defense is denied opportunity to make a play and get an out.

Your emphatic calls of FOUL BALL are wrong. Either you are going to stop or you are going to leave the game; and, I will finish by myself. If that is not agreeable, then I will leave the game and you can finish by yourself. Because I will not allow you to continue to screw-up my game. You are my partner. Either quit trying to subversively fight with me, and be my partner or you're going to end up finishing this game by yourself.

Nuff said?

This seems harsh and probably not cool but, in 20 some odd years, I have been in a couple situations where my partner has tried to fight with me or intentially make improper calls to favor one team... I won't tolerate that crap ever again.

It would be tough not to say the above and to stick with the game. I won't know what I would do until it happens... again.

[bluezebra]

Call your assignor, and tell him/her why you won't work with this person again.

I've been partnered-up with clowns like this, and did not work with them again. Some others must have complained also, because a few of the jokers were canned.

Bob

[TexBlue]

I was in my off game a few years ago. I was enjoying life, talking to people outside the fence. A ball is hit down 3rd base line in foul territory. The PU hollers "Foul Ball!" just as it rolls back into fair territory. Without missing a beat, he yells".... going fair!!!!" I couldn't believe it, he got away with it. No one hesitated, not one person complained and everyone got a laugh out of it. I never say him call foul ball again until it was touched or hit something.

If I'd done something, I'd probably still be hanging from the light standards in the park.

Rick