2-30

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Dakota

The infield is in an extreme right shift, with F6 playing shallow center-right and F5 is playing in the nominal SS position, but shifted more toward 2B. F7 comes in to cover third, but still plays a bit deep. (You don't see defensive shifts much in fastpitch due to the small infield, but...) There is a pop up near 3B, F7 is the player who can catch the ball with ordinary effort, since F5 is in her shifted position, and F7 does make the catch. Taking the Fed rule literally, is this an Infield Fly?

If you take the FED rule literally, and consider that F7 is still the left fielder, No.

But consider this: Since in FED players may change defensive positions at any time, coaches are not required to announce those changes, and umpires aren't required to record them, who's to say the defensive coach didn't turn F6 into F7, F5 into F6, and F7 into F5 for the shift, and then return them to their original designation after they return to their normal positions?

Frankly, I'm not grabbing the sh!tty end of the stick and not making an IF call in your scenario.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

In all honesty - I (and any umpire I've actually worked with, and not just read about on the internet) call IFF EXACTLY the same in Fed and ASA. So the wording is screwy in Fed - sometimes you just have to umpire.

Originally Posted by Manny A

If you take the FED rule literally, and consider that F7 is still the left fielder, No.

But consider this: Since in FED players may change defensive positions at any time, coaches are not required to announce those changes, and umpires aren't required to record them, who's to say the defensive coach didn't turn F6 into F7, F5 into F6, and F7 into F5 for the shift, and then return them to their original designation after they return to their normal positions?

Frankly, I'm not grabbing the sh!tty end of the stick and not making an IF call in your scenario.

The correct call is IF. I was only pointing out the seed of the argument that exists in the way the NFHS rules are written.

[DaveASA/FED]

Originally Posted by Manny A

If you take the FED rule literally, and consider that F7 is still the left fielder, No.

From the fed book:

Infield fly rule is, when declared by the umpire, a fair fly (not including a line drive or an attempted bunt) that can be caught by an infielder with ordinary effort when runners are on first and second or all three bases are occupied and before there are two outs in the inning. Any defensive player positioned in the infield at the time of the pitch shall be considered an infielder for the purposes of this rule. The rule does not preclude outfielders from being permitted to make the catch. The ball is live, the batter is out, which removes the force, but runners may advance at their own risk. The runners may tag up and advance as soon as the batted ball is touched by a fielder. If a declared infield fly becomes foul, it is treated as a foul ball, not an infield fly.

Maybe I am just looking at this wrong, but to me the above bold underlined text says we could have 9 players we consider possible to have an IF on a given play.

Now if we are argueing what is the infield again the definition of that is:
The infield is that portion of the field in fair territory that is normally skinned and covered by the pitcher and infielders.

This is to give someone a guideline not a hard fast dividing line. If SS is playing back 1 step in the grass is she no longer in the infield? I say she is still in the infield, and we could still have an IF in the case that she could field a ball with ordinary effort. How many fields are made to exact book standards when it comes to how much of the infield is skinned? Not very many, I know the local high school in my area had to get 12 yards of sod for one side and take out about 8 on the other to make it per the book when they redid it and made it per the book last year. I guess what I am saying is I see enough "wiggle" room with the normally skinned wording to enforce NFHS and ASA the same.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

From the fed book:

Infield fly rule is, when declared by the umpire, a fair fly (not including a line drive or an attempted bunt) that can be caught by an infielder with ordinary effort when runners are on first and second or all three bases are occupied and before there are two outs in the inning. Any defensive player positioned in the infield at the time of the pitch shall be considered an infielder for the purposes of this rule. The rule does not preclude outfielders from being permitted to make the catch. The ball is live, the batter is out, which removes the force, but runners may advance at their own risk. The runners may tag up and advance as soon as the batted ball is touched by a fielder. If a declared infield fly becomes foul, it is treated as a foul ball, not an infield fly.

Maybe I am just looking at this wrong, but to me the above bold underlined text says we could have 9 players we consider possible to have an IF on a given play.

Now if we are argueing what is the infield again the definition of that is:
The infield is that portion of the field in fair territory that is normally skinned and covered by the pitcher and infielders.

This is to give someone a guideline not a hard fast dividing line. If SS is playing back 1 step in the grass is she no longer in the infield? I say she is still in the infield, and we could still have an IF in the case that she could field a ball with ordinary effort. How many fields are made to exact book standards when it comes to how much of the infield is skinned? Not very many, I know the local high school in my area had to get 12 yards of sod for one side and take out about 8 on the other to make it per the book when they redid it and made it per the book last year. I guess what I am saying is I see enough "wiggle" room with the normally skinned wording to enforce NFHS and ASA the same.

No disagreement. I was merely addressing Tom's scenario where F7 is still playing deep enough into the outfield that she may still be considered an outfielder at the time of the pitch, but then comes in to make the catch near the infield. The FED wording of the rule would not support making the IF call in this case.

But you won't see me not making that call.

[Insane Blue]

Originally Posted by Manny A

No disagreement. I was merely addressing Tom's scenario where F7 is still playing deep enough into the outfield that she may still be considered an outfielder at the time of the pitch, but then comes in to make the catch near the infield. The FED wording of the rule would not support making the IF call in this case.

But you won't see me not making that call.

2014 NFHS rulebook 2-30

Infield fly rule is, when declared by the umpire, a fair fly (not including a line drive or an attempted bunt) that can be caught by an infielder with ordinary effort when runners are on first and second or all three bases are occupied and before there are two outs in the inning. Any defensive player positioned in the infield at the time of the pitch shall be considered an infielder for the purposes of this rule. The rule does not preclude outfielders from being permitted to make the catch. The ball is live, the batter is out, which removes the force, but runners may advance at their own risk. The runners may tag up and advance as soon as the batted ball is touched by a fielder. If a declared infield fly becomes foul, it is treated as a foul ball, not an infield fly.

But Manny it states it right there in 2-30 The rule does not preclude outfielders from being permitted to make the catch.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Insane Blue

2014 NFHS rulebook 2-30

Infield fly rule is, when declared by the umpire, a fair fly (not including a line drive or an attempted bunt) that can be caught by an infielder with ordinary effort when runners are on first and second or all three bases are occupied and before there are two outs in the inning. Any defensive player positioned in the infield at the time of the pitch shall be considered an infielder for the purposes of this rule. The rule does not preclude outfielders from being permitted to make the catch. The ball is live, the batter is out, which removes the force, but runners may advance at their own risk. The runners may tag up and advance as soon as the batted ball is touched by a fielder. If a declared infield fly becomes foul, it is treated as a foul ball, not an infield fly.

But Manny it states it right there in 2-30 The rule does not preclude outfielders from being permitted to make the catch.

All that is saying is that if an infielder could make the catch with ordinary effort, but an outfielder calls her off and ends up making the catch instead, that doesn't invalidate an infield fly call.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Manny A

No disagreement. I was merely addressing Tom's scenario where F7 is still playing deep enough into the outfield that she may still be considered an outfielder at the time of the pitch, but then comes in to make the catch near the infield. The FED wording of the rule would not support making the IF call in this case.

But you won't see me not making that call.

If F7 can get into the infield in time to make this play, she was probably close enough to be considered an infielder. If not the ball was so high that F6 from the shift (or F1) could have made the catch, so call the infield fly for that.