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Rich Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:03am

New coach
 
I've been an umpire since 1987.

Last night, I became the coach of my daughter's 8U travel softball team. Yes, they went to 3-4 out of town tournaments last year and my daughter had a blast. When her coach decided to move with his daughter to 10U next season, I realized that the team was in real danger of folding if someone didn't step up and coach.

I just finished the Part 1 ACE certification, which was required by my group. I intend to have Sports First Aid and CPR certification before we starting having practices (indoors -- this winter).

Can anyone point me an a good direction so I can learn how to be a coach and not be a liability to my daughter and her friends?

tcannizzo Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:20am

Rich,
I went in the opposite direction, coach 1989-04, umpiring since then.
First, let me tell you that your stress level will increase exponentially in that you will be running a small enterprise, and spending way more time than you would like with HR, Financial and Operational Logistics...coaching 40-50 games takes way more energy than umpiring 250 games.

But it is great fun coaching up your players and tremendous satisfaction seeing the difference in their abilities at the end of the year. And you will develop life-long memories with your daughter.

Maybe I can help. I developed a Playbook that I used as a guide for what and how to teach. It is too large to upload as an attachment, but if you PM your email address, I would be glad to send it to you.

MD Longhorn Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:34pm

My hardest lesson was when talking to the umpires, believe it or not. When umpiring, if we were discussing things as a group, I was generally the "rules guy" in the room - and accorded that kind of respect from most of them. Now, I begin with ZERO respect when discussing a call (even, in some cases, from some that remember me as an umpire).

The other interesting thing was that I was continually telling my assistant coach to stop mumbling or gesticulating over ball-strike calls. "We can't really see that from here" came out of my mouth about 20 times.

DRJ1960 Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:48pm

Congratulations. Many of my best sports memories are from coaching my kids.

Rita C Mon Aug 19, 2013 09:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 902840)
I've been an umpire since 1987.

Last night, I became the coach of my daughter's 8U travel softball team. Yes, they went to 3-4 out of town tournaments last year and my daughter had a blast. When her coach decided to move with his daughter to 10U next season, I realized that the team was in real danger of folding if someone didn't step up and coach.

I just finished the Part 1 ACE certification, which was required by my group. I intend to have Sports First Aid and CPR certification before we starting having practices (indoors -- this winter).

Can anyone point me an a good direction so I can learn how to be a coach and not be a liability to my daughter and her friends?

Be good and patient with the umpires.

Manny A Tue Aug 20, 2013 04:58am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rita C (Post 902898)
Be good and patient with the umpires.

+1

One of the worst experiences I've had doing Juco ball recently involved a head coach who came up to my partner and me while we were inspecting his team's bats, and started up a conversation by telling us he is a long-time umpire at the D1 level. My radar went up immediately.

Sure enough, he questioned a number of calls, and even questioned responsibilities. His team requested an appeal of a runner missing third base while scoring on a hit. I was the PU and gave the safe signal. He requested Time, sauntered over to me, and asked, "Who's call is that at third base?" I told him it was mine, and he asked if I was sure. I answered, "Coach, if you're an umpire as you claim to be, you know whose call it is. Now let's play."

Don't be "that coach". :p

Rich Tue Aug 20, 2013 07:16am

My daughter will be 9. I am not expecting talented (or even competent) umpiring. If I get it, I will be pleasantly surprised.

I'll have enough things to worry about - there's absolutely no chance I'll get on an umpire.

I was tempted last year when one called strikes a good foot off the plate when my daughter was batting and I was just a dad in the stands, but I walked away instead.

RKBUmp Tue Aug 20, 2013 09:10am

Quote:

I'll have enough things to worry about - there's absolutely no chance I'll get on an umpire.
I said the same thing, but it gets real hard after several games in a row where the umpires dont even know the most basic rules of the game and even then the rules change from game to game depending on which umpire you get. I finally had a meeting with the assignor for the league and asked how were we ever suppose to teach the girls to play the game if we werent going to use a rule book. She told me they were allowing the umpires to use their own descretion as to what they did and did not call. So I asked her, in other words we are playing under a top secret rule set contained only in each umpires head?

Rich Tue Aug 20, 2013 09:30am

Quote:

Originally Posted by RKBUmp (Post 902916)
I said the same thing, but it gets real hard after several games in a row where the umpires dont even know the most basic rules of the game and even then the rules change from game to game depending on which umpire you get. I finally had a meeting with the assignor for the league and asked how were we ever suppose to teach the girls to play the game if we werent going to use a rule book. She told me they were allowing the umpires to use their own descretion as to what they did and did not call. So I asked her, in other words we are playing under a top secret rule set contained only in each umpires head?

The thing I found a bit annoying just watching were the "special" rules that would change from day to day and game to game. I'm going to have to make a real effort to turn that part of my brain off and use it as a teaching moment for the girls.

Welpe Tue Aug 20, 2013 09:34am

I put the over/under at 5.5 games. :D

Rich Tue Aug 20, 2013 10:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 902920)
I put the over/under at 5.5 games. :D

Unless there's lightning involved. Then all bets are off.

MD Longhorn Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:17am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 902910)
My daughter will be 9. there's absolutely no chance I'll get on an umpire.

My daughter was 9 when I started... and yes you will.

1) A play needed to go home, so I moved everyone in, including my LF all the way to where a normal F5 would play. Umpire in C told her (HER! Not me... her!) she needed to move back. Yes, I got on him first for telling my player where to go, and second for trying to tell me I couldn't position my players where I wanted them.

2) Play at 3rd, F5 is clearly and blatantly blocking the base, my player slides and literally bounces off the fielder. Then F5 catches the ball and tags my player laying on the ground, who tried feebly to avoid the tag by crawling away. OUT! My first question - Did you see the obstruction. When he said yes, I asked how my player could be out. When he said, "She was moving away from third base when she was tagged." Yes, I got on him. Luckily his partner came in to fix things (yes, unsolicited, but I wasn't going to stop him!).

Yes. You WILL get on an umpire.

Andy Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:18am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny A (Post 902907)
+1

One of the worst experiences I've had doing Juco ball recently involved a head coach who came up to my partner and me while we were inspecting his team's bats, and started up a conversation by telling us he is a long-time umpire at the D1 level. My radar went up immediately.

Sure enough, he questioned a number of calls, and even questioned responsibilities. His team requested an appeal of a runner missing third base while scoring on a hit. I was the PU and gave the safe signal. He requested Time, sauntered over to me, and asked, "Who's call is that at third base?" I told him it was mine, and he asked if I was sure. I answered, "Coach, if you're an umpire as you claim to be, you know whose call it is. Now let's play."

Don't be "that coach". :p

If he is asking those types of questions, maybe you should find out what sport he umpires at the "D1 Level".....

Rich Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:47am

I know I'll never use the phrase, "I'm an umpire" because I know how I react every time I hear someone say that to me.

Although I did put my resume forward when I questioned why my daughter's team (this past year) was playing in the middle of a torrential downpour / thunderstorm.

IRISHMAFIA Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:57am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 902930)
I know I'll never use the phrase, "I'm an umpire" because I know how I react every time I hear someone say that to me.

Although I did put my resume forward when I questioned why my daughter's team (this past year) was playing in the middle of a torrential downpour / thunderstorm.

I've always wondered why teams stay on the field when they consider it "unsafe"? You don't want to play in it, don't.

DaveASA/FED Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:03pm

It is often difficult NOT to get excited when you know it's wrong. Mine happened in a 10U all star game. My runner ran behind the short stop (3-4 steps behind) who was playing in, a hit ball deflected off the shorts stop glove and hit my runner on the foot as she jumped to try and avoid the ball. the ball when out to the outfield as 3B was playing up also. The umpire called my runner out.

Well I started off with being nice.

Me: Just to make sure, what rule set are we playing under?
Umpire: ASA (I had to ask since he had a blank hat on)
Me: Are there any tournament rules about interference that weren't in this coaches handout?
Umpire: No
Me: Ok so how do you have my runner out?
Umpire: The ball hit her
Me: After it passed the short stop, did another fielder have a chance to get an out?
Umpire: NO
Me: Since this was a deflected ball do you feel my runner intentionally contacted that ball?
Umpire: NO
Me: Then how can she be out???
Umpire: Come on man anytime the ball hits a runner she's out.
Me: Sir that's not a correct statement
Umpire: Yes it is that's simple rules

At this point I took a deep breath and remembered there was a no protest rule at this tourney umpires had the final say on the field.
Me: Well sir this is your diamond and you have the final say, but PLEASE look that up when we get off the field cause your interpretation is wrong.

He had a few more words, I said the above when we were close to each other and only loud enough for us to hear it.

Later that day he came up and apologized to me, I told him it's ok it's just a learning experience.

Of course this is the same tourney that I yelled at my own fans for getting on an umpire. They were all over him, I said "HEY" and explained the rule and that the umpire was right, I also added that it's my job to talk to the umpire about his/her calls it's theirs to support their kids. After I said that I was a little nervous because I wasn't very nice when I said it....after the game one of the larger dads came up to me and said "Well you sure shut us up. I'm glad you did cause you are right we should be positive for our kids and you should argue with the umpires" Talk about breathing a sigh of relief when he said that!!

Manny A Tue Aug 20, 2013 03:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy (Post 902929)
If he is asking those types of questions, maybe you should find out what sport he umpires at the "D1 Level".....

I'm 100% sure he was asking just to check and see if I knew. It was a not-so-subtle attempt at trying to show us he was better than us.

Rich Tue Aug 20, 2013 03:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 902932)
I've always wondered why teams stay on the field when they consider it "unsafe"? You don't want to play in it, don't.

I wasn't the coach this past year. And putting unsafe in quotation marks implies that maybe it wasn't. It was 100%, positively unsafe -- the tournament cared more about "getting games in."

This past year, I should've simply pulled my kid. Next year, I'll pull my team. And the place where this tournament happened -- I guarantee that I will not be taking my team there.

RPatrino Tue Aug 20, 2013 06:16pm

Rich, I coached my son through his entire amateur baseball life and umpired during the last 5 years of that time. The hardest thing I found was keeping quiet when the parents and crowd were clamoring for me to confront the umpires. Most discussions I had were quiet, one on one discussions asking about rule interps. I found it easier to just be a bench coach, and not deal with the field action too much. I also handed out a lot of bottles of water...LOL.

tcannizzo Wed Aug 21, 2013 09:11am

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 902932)
I've always wondered why teams stay on the field when they consider it "unsafe"? You don't want to play in it, don't.

Before I became an umpire, in an ASA Tournament, there was significant lightning around the park, but the umpires would not suspend play.

I went to PU and said that if he didn't suspend play that I would pull my team off the field, even if it meant a forfeit. He still wouldn't yield.

I pulled the team. The UIC came over and ruled that we would not have to take the forfeit.

Dakota Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:58am

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 902932)
I've always wondered why teams stay on the field when they consider it "unsafe"? You don't want to play in it, don't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcannizzo (Post 903015)
Before I became an umpire, in an ASA Tournament, there was significant lightning around the park, but the umpires would not suspend play.

I went to PU and said that if he didn't suspend play that I would pull my team off the field, even if it meant a forfeit. He still wouldn't yield.

I pulled the team. The UIC came over and ruled that we would not have to take the forfeit.

I've umpired in tournaments where it was made clear to the umpires that decisions regarding suspending play due to weather were reserved solely for the TD. They did not want each field to decide independently, but the tournament as a whole.

Fortunately, when this has been in the tournament rules, the TD has been very safety-conscious, so it never became an issue where I thought play should be suspended but the TD had not reached a decision yet (and it did provide a deflection for whiney coaches).

But, what is the thought here on such a tournament rule? Would you "violate" the rule if the TD was too slow to decide (i.e. in your judgment, the conditions were unsafe)?

MD Longhorn Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakota (Post 903038)
I've umpired in tournaments where it was made clear to the umpires that decisions regarding suspending play due to weather were reserved solely for the TD. They did not want each field to decide independently, but the tournament as a whole.

Fortunately, when this has been in the tournament rules, the TD has been very safety-conscious, so it never became an issue where I thought play should be suspended but the TD had not reached a decision yet (and it did provide a deflection for whiney coaches).

But, what is the thought here on such a tournament rule? Would you "violate" the rule if the TD was too slow to decide (i.e. in your judgment, the conditions were unsafe)?

In the case of lightning or thunder, I've never had an issue where I thought it needed to be stopped but the TD didn't stop it. I have, however, had an issue where rain made MY field unplayable, but hadn't made other fields unplayable. I stopped my game, had the TD called over to address it. He ended up moving that game to another field while the field crew addressed my field. The skies cleared and the rest of the games on my field were played just fine.

Don't know if that completely answers your question. I suspect that if the TD had refused to do something, I would have stopped play and let him take it up with my UIC.

AtlUmpSteve Wed Aug 21, 2013 02:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakota (Post 903038)
I've umpired in tournaments where it was made clear to the umpires that decisions regarding suspending play due to weather were reserved solely for the TD. They did not want each field to decide independently, but the tournament as a whole.

Fortunately, when this has been in the tournament rules, the TD has been very safety-conscious, so it never became an issue where I thought play should be suspended but the TD had not reached a decision yet (and it did provide a deflection for whiney coaches).

But, what is the thought here on such a tournament rule? Would you "violate" the rule if the TD was too slow to decide (i.e. in your judgment, the conditions were unsafe)?

I would never allow a TD to make that decision; he/she often has different thoughts and priorities. If there is an on-site UIC, I agree that he should be making the over-all decision, but not a TD.

I use the general rule in my organization, if there isn't a site UIC, allow game/site/league management to take you off a field you consider still safe, but do NOT allow them to require you to stay and continue if you feel it is unsafe.

Andy Wed Aug 21, 2013 02:43pm

Most of the tournaments I do are in complexes that have multiple fields. I can see having one person make the decision to stop play. The last thing you want is to have the umpire stop play on one field while play is still going on the other fields, (absent MD's specific situation).

I did have a situation earlier this year that I, as the umpire, had to take a stand.
Lightning and storm activity was observed in the distance, I asked the site supervisor if he had seen it, he said he had and was "watching" it. The storm and activity started moving much closer until there was a lightning strike within a few miles of the complex, in my judgement. I told the site supervisor that I strongly recommended getting the fields cleared, he said he was trying to reach the TD, who was at another complex in town. When the next strike hit, I told him that the fields need to be cleared now and he agreed.

Personally, I think we were fortunate there was no one struck.

IRISHMAFIA Wed Aug 21, 2013 08:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy (Post 903075)
Most of the tournaments I do are in complexes that have multiple fields. I can see having one person make the decision to stop play. The last thing you want is to have the umpire stop play on one field while play is still going on the other fields, (absent MD's specific situation).

Depends on the reason. At multifield complexes, it is not unusual for fields to deteriorate to different levels at a different rate. If there is no reason to stop a game on a particular field, it shouldn't be and certainly not because another field went under earlier.

Quote:

I did have a situation earlier this year that I, as the umpire, had to take a stand.
Lightning and storm activity was observed in the distance, I asked the site supervisor if he had seen it, he said he had and was "watching" it. The storm and activity started moving much closer until there was a lightning strike within a few miles of the complex, in my judgement. I told the site supervisor that I strongly recommended getting the fields cleared, he said he was trying to reach the TD, who was at another complex in town. When the next strike hit, I told him that the fields need to be cleared now and he agreed.
Wouldn't have waited, if it is time to go, waiting on a phone call is not appropriate. If the TD wants to continue the game, s/he could borrow my indicator and brush.


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