Originally Posted by EsqUmp (Post 885262)

What in my statement is inaccurate?

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 885303)

I'm trying to find a rule or any citation whatsoever that converts a runner who has scored into something else the instant a toe touches dugout. I can't find such a thing. You seem to think she does, so I'll ask you to find the cite.

Originally Posted by Manny A (Post 885295)

Why yell? You can make your point without engaging the Caps Lock button.

Are you suggesting that a retired runner becomes someone else when she enters the dugout? Is there a rule cite for that?

The rules are clear that a retired (or scored) runner cannot enter the dugout, and then come back out to correct base running mistakes. But I've never seen anything that says once she enters the dugout, she can no longer come back out to do other things like direct a teammate to slide at home.

Seriously (and without shouting), is there something that says her status as a retired (or scored) runner changes the moment she steps into DBT?

Originally Posted by Insane Blue (Post 885317)

For Federation look up definition of a retired runner.

Originally Posted by Insane Blue (Post 885317)

For Federation look up definition of a retired runner.

Originally Posted by Insane Blue (Post 885319)

Yes Rule 3-6-6 covers who may be outside of the dugout and for what reasons. When the Retired Runner enters the dugout she becomes bench personal and is governed by this rule.

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 885326)

I did before replying to esq. I just read it again. Can you let us know exactly what part of that says or even implies that the retired runner's status changes when toe touches dugout? Even if I put myself in the mindset that I WANT it to say that, I cannot get it to say that.

Originally Posted by Insane Blue (Post 885332)

Can you tell me where a player who is in the dugout can be anything other than a player in the dugout???

A retired runner is just that a retired runner Bench personnel is just that bench personnel. once the player left the playing field she is bench personnel.

Originally Posted by Manny A (Post 885295)

But I've never seen anything that says once she enters the dugout, she can no longer come back out to do other things like direct a teammate to slide at home.

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 885327)

Don't be that guy that argues with things the other person didn't say. No one said this, or implied it.

Originally Posted by Insane Blue (Post 885319)

Are you telling us that a bench player other than the on deck player can leave the dugout to tell a player to slide during a live ball.

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 885327)

That said - even if some bench player DID leave the dugout to do this, an out for interference would not be the automatic remedy (assuming, of course, they didn't actually interfere).

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 885335)

Ah. Sorry. Forgot you were the same one I gave up on earlier for this sort of logic. Don't bother actually answering the question given to you ... just rephrase your previous response.

Answer the question you were actually asked ... or don't. I've stopped caring now. Some people argue to get to a correct answer, so we can be better umpires. Others argue simply to win the argument ... or change the argument until you can win. This serves no purpose, and I have no further interest in entertaining you.

Originally Posted by Insane Blue (Post 885339)

I did answer your question Once the player left the playing field she is bench personnel.

Originally Posted by Insane Blue (Post 885338)

Did I miss read him??? He is allowing someone to enter the field to coach the runner going to home.

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 885349)

No. That was not the question. That was a repeat of your (and esq's) statement. The question was - why do you think this? Based on what rule does the retired or scored runner change into bench personnel the instant a toe touches dugout? You keep trying to apply bench personnel rules to a player that was involved in this play and is not bench personnel. Saying again that she is bench personnel doesn't make it so. Why do you think it.

Originally Posted by Insane Blue (Post 885352)

I think this because she has left the field of play when she entered the dugout. and no not just cause her toe is is in.

Originally Posted by youngump (Post 885357)

This position to me makes even less sense. Generally, a runner who steps in DBT can no longer return to retouch (not if she is still partially in live ball territory but once she enters DBT). Saying that you now determine that to become bench personnel she must fully exit the field seems even further afield, but Mike's question remains: what makes you say that a runner who has scored and enters the dugout becomes bench personnel?