Easy question for you guys...

devdog69 · #1 (**permalink**) Sat Jul 12, 2003, 06:26pm

Hey guys, I officiate basketball, football, and volleyball with basketball by far my chosen sport, and I troll around here occasionally looking for some good coach ejection stories

Anyway, I'm watching a softball game the other night and the 13 year old girl who is pitching lost the ball behind her as she started her windup. It rolled almost to second base and the guy at the plate called it a 'ball', I just wanted to know if that was considered a 'pitch' and if he ruled correctly. I probably had seven or eight fans around me and they would look to me anytime somthing strange happened to see if it was right or not. I just smile and say 'no idea', not my sport.

MichaelVA2000 · #2 (**permalink**) Sat Jul 12, 2003, 06:35pm

You didn't mention whether the game was fastpitch or slowpitch or the type of league rules they were playing under. Either way if it was ASA league play, the umpire made the correct call.

The ASA rules are:

Fastpitch: Rule 6, Section 11

Slowpitch: Rule 6, Section 9-E

Michael

devdog69 · #3 (**permalink**) Sat Jul 12, 2003, 06:39pm

It was fastpitch, and I do believe it is ASA, thanks.

Bluefoot · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 14, 2003, 08:15am

ASA Rule 6 (Slow Pitch), Section 9-E states that no pitch shall be declared, and that the ball is dead. Therefore, in a slow pitch game, it is not a called ball.

Dakota · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 14, 2003, 11:10am

Quote:

Originally posted by devdog69
It was fastpitch, and I do believe it is ASA, thanks.

The call was correct for ASA fast pitch. The rule is ASA 6F-11.

Dakota · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 14, 2003, 11:14am

Just to spice this up a little...

Assume 1st base is unoccupied, count is 1-2. Can the batter swing and run to first on a "dropped" third stike?

IRISHMAFIA · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 14, 2003, 11:38am

Quote:

Originally posted by Dakota
Just to spice this up a little...

Assume 1st base is unoccupied, count is 1-2. Can the batter swing and run to first on a "dropped" third stike?

I don't think so. For it to be a strike, the batter must attempt to hit the ball. If there is no ball to hit, how are you going to call it a strike?

Dakota · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 14, 2003, 11:48am

Quote:

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
For it to be a strike, the batter must attempt to hit the ball

I admit I'm just having some fun here, but where does it say that in the rule book? 7-4C only says the batter must swing at a legal pitch!

Depends on what the meaning of the word "at" is!

IRISHMAFIA · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 14, 2003, 12:06pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Dakota

Quote:

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
For it to be a strike, the batter must attempt to hit the ball

I admit I'm just having some fun here, but where does it say that in the rule book? 7-4C only says the batter must swing at a legal pitch!

Depends on what the meaning of the word "at" is!

Then an argument can be made that it is not a legal delivery as the ball was not released as prescribed in 6.3 and should be ruled illegal. Since the ball was not put into play by the batter, the illegal pitch is enforced.

Now you also have to define "play" along with "at".

nelyak · #10 (**permalink**) Fri Jul 18, 2003, 02:52am

The rule states that it must be a hittable ball for a strike to be called. If the ball is near 2nd it is not hittable, therefore no strike.

whiskers_ump · #11 (**permalink**) Fri Jul 18, 2003, 08:25am

Quote:

Originally posted by nelyak
The rule states that it must be a hittable ball for a strike to be called. If the ball is near 2nd it is not hittable, therefore no strike.

Yes, in NFHS Rules, not ASA as this discussion started out.

glen

DaveASA/FED · #12 (**permalink**) Fri Jul 18, 2003, 09:59am

I agree that the intent of the rule is to have a pitch that is at least around the batter when she swings at it. As stated in ASA it does not have to be a hittable pitch. As Irish has stated it could be ruled an illegal (IMO it would not) but then we would have to award each runner the next base. In all seriousness what would you do in this situation? If you allow the D3K you have a batter getting 1st if you call it illegal with a runner on 3rd you may have just scored the winning run to protect from a batter getting 1st.

Ain't it funny how such an "easy question" can spark such a good debate??

[Edited by DaveASA/FED on Jul 18th, 2003 at 12:34 PM]

greymule · #13 (**permalink**) Fri Jul 18, 2003, 11:32am

"Depends on what the meaning of the word at is."

Perhaps we could ask the opinion of a former U.S. president known for offering interpretations of similar questions in the past.

Dakota · #14 (**permalink**) Fri Jul 18, 2003, 01:32pm

Quote:

Originally posted by greymule
"Depends on what the meaning of the word at is."

Perhaps we could ask the opinion of a former U.S. president known for offering interpretations of similar questions in the past.

But could you trust his answer?

IRISHMAFIA · #15 (**permalink**) Fri Jul 18, 2003, 04:25pm

Quote:

Originally posted by DaveASA/FED
I agree that the intent of the rule is to have a pitch that is at least around the batter when she swings at it. As stated in ASA it does not have to be a hittable pitch. As Irish has stated it could be ruled an illegal (IMO it would not) but then we would have to award each runner the next base. In all seriousness what would you do in this situation? If you allow the D3K you have a batter getting 1st if you call it illegal with a runner on 3rd you may have just scored the winning run to protect from a batter getting 1st.

Ain't it funny how such an "easy question" can spark such a good debate??

[Edited by DaveASA/FED on Jul 18th, 2003 at 12:34 PM]

Dave, you are correct, it shouldn't be an "illegal" pitch. My point was that a ball which slips out of the pitcher's hand on the back-swing does not meet the definition of "legal pitch" in rule 6. Therefore, if there wasn't a "legal pitch" offered, how could their be a D3K?