I recently read with interest the long post/threads dealing with the size of the strike zone. This is not in the same vein. I am interested in knowing whether any of you are experiencing what I am; a blatent questioning of the zone by pitchers, catchers and batters at all age levels.

Lets say for the sake of argument that I am Mr. Consistent. Whatever age level I'm doing (anywhere from 9-10 to womens fastpitch) the zone is the same 1st pitch to last. Here is a short list of player reactions to various calls over the last couple of weeks.

a. Called strike. Batter turns around and calmly says "that was high blue".

b. Called ball. Belt high. Barely inside, but inside. Pitcher looks in and says "can I ask where that one was?"

c. Called ball. Low. Catcher, without looking around, says loudly "oh my God!"

d. Called strike. Coach yells at batter " you might as well swing. He's going to call a strike anyway.

Etc., etc., etc. No rhyme or reason. No bad pattern on my part( remember, I'm Mr. Consistent for this argument.) No coach or player tossed at this point. Each incident was handled with a warning and no further complaints. But I'm starting to see this almost every night. I have no problems with ugly faces, exasperated looks, hands thrown in the air. It's the constant verbal quipping that bugs me.

Am I too sensitive? Am I getting old? Does anyone else sense a change in what players think they're allowed to say?

For a midget, but you are not a midget

Quote:

b. Called ball. Belt high. Barely inside, but inside. Pitcher looks in and says "can I ask where that one was?"

Sure, but I will not answer.

Quote:

c. Called ball. Low. Catcher, without looking around, says loudly "oh my God!"

The way she is throwing, I can't blame you for praying, but I suggest you throw the ball back to the pitcher before I call a ball on the batter.

Quote:

d. Called strike. Coach yells at batter " you might as well swing. He's going to call a strike anyway.

What a novel idea, actually trying to strike the ball with the bat! What will you think of next, coach?

Quote:

Etc., etc., etc. No rhyme or reason. No bad pattern on my part( remember, I'm Mr. Consistent for this argument.) No coach or player tossed at this point. Each incident was handled with a warning and no further complaints. But I'm starting to see this almost every night. I have no problems with ugly faces, exasperated looks, hands thrown in the air. It's the constant verbal quipping that bugs me. Am I too sensitive? Am I getting old? Does anyone else sense a change in what players think they're allowed to say?

Of course, I'm being facetious. However, speaking ASA, if you are tired of hearing the ball/strike crap, simply walk over to the manager and invoke rule 4.9.B and remind him/her that the penalty for anything YOU consider arguing a ball or strike call will result in the ejection of that team member. Remind him/her that YOU consider any questioning or comments referring to a ball or strike call as arguing, in YOUR judgment.

You might also remind the manager/coach that since it is their responsibility to control his/her players and coaches (4.8.A), that if YOU consider him/her failing to achieve that goal, there is no need for YOU to allow them to remain in the game. Hence, if you cannot determine who is making questionable comments, the manager/coach isn't doing their job and just as well go sit in the parking lot.

In Delaware over the past 20 years, umpires have done everything they can to keep players and coaches in the game including ignoring extremely rude and disparaging remarks. The problem is that the coaches and players now believe anything is permitted. I routinely tell umpires to not allow themselves to be abused and to dump a participant if, in their judgment, they have gone too far in their actions. Do not offer ultimatums (i.e. "if I hear one more thing", "another word and your gone", etc.) or "warnings". If they cross the line, let them trip on it.

JMHO,

Anti-sensitivity training
 

These jerks' remarks are undermining your confidence. They are at least partially succeeding because (a) they're hammering away so relentlessly hoping to find a weak point, and (b) said weak point is that you are inwardly worried that you aren't really Mr. Consistent as you wish you could present yourself.

To minimize the influence of these remarks and your tendency to toss players too quickly for them, you need a rock-solid image of yourself as a consistent ball-strike caller. This requires enough practice and schooling so that you KNOW inwardly you're always right. When you know that, your self-image will be so secure that the jerks can't get you. Then you can concentrate on only bouncing people who too publicly challenge your authority (say, perhaps, the catcher in "c" that said "Oh my God") but not the others who were more civilly stating their opinions. I don't believe that we Americans forfeit the right to our opinions just because we're on a softball field, so I typically let whoever it is say whatever they feel ONCE, then we go on -- unless it's personally insulting, combative, or too much a public challenge to the umpire's authority. It could be said of me that I take too much crap from players, but I agree with your premise that it's too prevalent these days.

If I'm not perfect in my iron will, and their nonstop B.S. comments begin to bug me, I'll stop the game and very obviously call forth at least one or perhaps both managers, and tell him/her/them that I've had enough public display about balls and strikes and that the unwarned ejections are about to start. The managers usually can read a 'stop' sign even if the players can't, and the smart@sses get disciplined toot sweet. (If the manager is part of the problem, that's a slightly more serious matter, but the principle is the same.) NSA has a nice rule that I have yet to enforce that if anyone but the batter, pitcher or catcher leaves their position to argue balls or strikes, they're immediately ejected. Hey, you've gotta play by the rules. Coach, I had no choice, it's in the book.

Always keep in your mind the unshakable self-image of yourself as the World's Greatest Umpire. Even if you kick a call (and you will, we all do), if you don't act like you screwed up a lot of people won't notice it, or will come to not believe what they once thought they saw differently. So just put doubts or errors behind you and concentrate on playing the next play and doing your best from this point forward.

When challenged, keep within reach the umpire's best attitudinal friend, an impassiveness which I call The Iron Mask of Indifference. If a player comes up to you raising hell and you don't get visibly angry back, and just stare through him as if you're at most faintly hearing a voice from the planet Lumpygravy, the player will be the one who comes off looking stupid, every time. This is incredibly hard to do but ALWAYS successful, even if the player is aggravated to the point of physical agitation (in which case the stakes are VERY high and you MUST calm him down, and this is the very best way).

This iron transcendence, backed by your perfect rock-solid self-image as W.G.U., is a mental state that has served me well and I bet will help you get over this heightened sensitivity.

Re: pardon double post following this
 

Mine did the same thing. We must have hit the submit button at the same time.

strike zone:am I too sensitve?
 

The first time I hear a coach or a player question a ball or strike call I give them a warning. I tell them that comments about my strike zone will be considered arguing and that arguing the strike zone is a violation of the rules. If this violation continues I will take further action. So far after making this statement I haven't had any further comments about the strike zone.

Michael

I'll play the devil's advocate. I'm not defending the verbal quips by any means, I think they should be warned for arguing balls and strikes.

I did notice early on that the more strikes I called the less argument I got. I'm not talking about calling a strike on a pitch that everybody in the park knows is a ball, but the ones that are a few inches inside or outside I give them. Everybody expects that to be called a strike unless you're calling NCAA ball or higher, and even then they expect a little on the corners.

Re: pardon double post following this
 

Try deleting one of them. Click on Edit/Delete and the check the Delete box and submit.

More strikes
 

As is 'more outs,' 'more strikes' is a good thing. More strike calls make for more active batters and a more entertaining game for fans as well as the coaches and players because there is more activity going on and therefore less opportunity for confrontation/frustration.

It took awhile but I also learned (or taught myself) that all comments were not directed at me. When the coach yells "that's a great pitch," "we gotta have that one," or "good location" etc... after you just called it a ball, it is not necessarily directed at you and a good pitch does not need to be, and may not have been intended to be, in the strike zone.

Isolate yourself from as much crap as you can. FOCUS. Let the garbage just blow by. If you do anything else and acknowledge their comments... you will find yourself in a confrontational situation that can only, and I do mean ONLY, get worse. Because you will want to defend yourself - and everyone else will want to defend themselves. Now instead of being the arbiter of the game, you are the opponent... not a good thing.

Umpires always win. :) But as the "opponent" umpire, you generally win by making personal commands (sit down, shut up, get in the dugout) and ejections. You have the authority to do this but it is not a good result.:(

This talk-back attitutide is not just prevalent in baseball/softball - it has become the socially acceptable way to interact with those around you. A terrible misdirection that I feel has resulted from taking 'rights' for oneself rather than giving or affording them to others. It's a personal peeve of mine - the proper way to interact in society is to give and afford personal rights to other people, not demand those rights for yourself (at the expense of those around you).

I think I've exceeded my two bits...

Peace, and call as many strikes as you can - while being consistent.:D

DownTownTonyBrown,
As a coach, a fan, and a father of a soon to be college player, I want to commend you for your statements. In my view, they were right on and excellent advise for both umpires and coaches to follow. Many fan and coach comments which may seem directed at officials are actually a means by which we show support for our players and are not meant to be confrontational.
Play Ball.

Although I try to call as many strikes as possible, I do have a problem with an umpire that calls a pitch 6" off the plate a "strike" no matter how consistently they call it. The defensive team loves a wide strike zone but they're not as enthusiastic when batting under those same conditions. The defensive team also loves an umpire that looks the other way on illegal pitches but gripes about the opponent's pitcher. I love the coaches and fans that remark "let the girls play" until the other team does something against the rules or gets a beneficial call. "Consistently bad" is still bad no matter how you try to justify it.

Too sensitive? Remember, 100% of the calls you make are going to make 50% of the crowd unhappy! I always mention at pre-game, balls/strikes safes/outs are the umpires, we will not argue. That is my warning, no more. As for the comments, most can be overlooked, may be hard but it can be done. I had a cute little catcher once who wouldnt say anything, but she would wipe off outside corner of plate. After two or three times I said to her, "you ain't gonna make it any bigger" she just grinned, and kept wiping, every so often. Another called third strike, heard moans and groans from bench, coach asked player "where was THAT one?" She replied "right down the middle, I just froze!" The bench got quiet! I enjoy hearing some of the comments, like "How many of these are your kids blue" but its usually very clear when the line is crossed, and thats when I will bow up, and stop it. I honestly don't hear most of what is said, I am focused on the plays, and tend to ignore alot. I also have been on the other side of the fence, so I know the feeling! I try always to never let the comments influence my calls, or to take it out on the players.

Much depends, IMO, on the overall attitude, not just the comments. Comments about balls and strikes are part of the game. I'm talking about "comments" not "arguing." I think we are being too sensitive if we want total silence from the players / coaches / (and especially) the fans about the judgment calls we make.

Notice the final statement that I exerpted from your post... if you issued no warning and there were no further complaints, then you acted properly, IMO.


OTOH, if a. and c. were from the same player (once while at bat, the other while catching), then an immediate warning to the catcher after c. would be in order - something to the effect of "Catcher, if you want to see the end of this game, you'd better get control of yourself."

Also, attitude comes into play. If the pitcher in b. has shown no tendancy to show me up, I might take her request at face value and say quietly to the catcher, "Catcher, the pitch was inside. She needs to hit the corner to get the call." While I am not obligated to say this, and some would say I shouldn't say it, I believe (particularly with the youth players which I call exclusively), it lets them know what they need to do.

OTOH, if this pitcher was obviously trying to show me up, then an immediate warning is in order (first offense) and ejection for further outbursts. (Again, I'm talking youth players.)

Of your examples, d. is the only one that would trigger an immediate reaction from me. A coach yelling loudly such a statement is obviously trying to show me up or intimidate me. My action would range from standing up, taking my mask of, and giving the coach "the look" (VERY effective, I have found), to a verbal warning, to an ejection if this was a second offense. Again, with youth teams, I try very hard to keep the coach in the game - but he can eject himself.

I agree with DTTB's comments that many times the coaches are giving the players (especially the pitcher) encouragement, rather than arguing balls and strikes. If she is having a hard time hitting the zone, they want her to know how "close" she is & to keep trying. Or, as Tony said, a "good pitch" is many times an off-speed or drop pitch or some such that was intended to get the batter to swing rather than get a called strike.

Anyway, long-winded I know, but those are some of my thoughts.

I'm glad someone else mentioned the "death stare", or as someone said the other day, the "wife look".

I think some of you know me well enough by now to figure out the things I object to in this post and the one I strongly support.

Cecilone, I dont know you well enough, you gotta be more specific.

Well, I'm not Cecil, but since you asked...

I always ask for good sportsmanship to prevail at the plate meeting, but I never give a pre-emptive warning. Whatever is said at the plate meeting does not meet the requirements in the rules of an official warning. I think pre-emptive warnings set a bad tone.

Any comment questioning my integrity has immediately crossed the line.

Well, thats OK. To clarify, I do not say "this is a warning" in pre game, as inferred in post, I do try and emphasize that I will not allow arguements. The sentence (at pre-game) ends after "we will not argue". I will also always state, coaches are welcome to call time after play is finished, and we will discuss the call if you wish. I doubt I have ever antagonized a coach in a pre game this way. As for pre-emptive warnings, IMO the rule book is the warning, I need not warn at all.

Any comment (not agreeing with you) can be construed as questioning your integrity. Its easy, for me at least, to realize the fun, or humorous stuff, from the serious insults, and again, most of what I hear in the stands, I tend to ignore.

Each situation is as diverse as the umpires calling the games. That is why good judgment, and common sense should always prevail.

In a pre-game, I introduce the crew, double-check line-up cards, offer the ground rules and, if necessary, flip a coin.

Anyone who has worked a game with me knows that when I give the ground rules, you better be listening because I run through them quick enough I demand their attention. I know what they are before I walk on the field and at times will not even take my eyes off the coaches during my offering.

I do not offer any type of "warnings" or indication of expected behavior. The coaches expect me to know what my responsibilities are and, in turn, I expect the same from them. If they are not capable of that, I consider it that much more an edge I have in controling the game.

The coin flip is always the last event. If there is a clock on the game, I will take my watch off my wrist and show both team representatives the time. As they walk away, I inform them that they are now on the clock.

All I can say is that it works for me.

i, too, often wonder if i'm not generous enuf with the strike zone ... dare i bring up the black "non-plate" perimeter around some of the home plates out there ???

i still say it's not plate, but i do call strikes if the edge of the ball is over the black ... but i never call a strike if the ball's a couple inches inside or outside ... that just seems wrong

if i give anything, it's usually the odd shoulder-high pitch or a-little-below-the-knee pitch when i feel the game needs a little spicing up (too many walks or one team blowing away the other)

and, i coach, too, and often find myself "encouraging" the ump any time they are hesitating on a ball/strike call ... any hesitation and i yell "there it is!!!, great pitch !!!" (i think it works more often than not) ... then, if he/she calls a ball, i yell "that must have been close!!" or something similar

so, you're not alone, little jimmy ... if that makes you feel any better !!

Thanks for all the thoughtfull insight. As with many things in life, if you give it enough time you can answer the question yourself. The answer to my question "am I being too sensitive?" is yes, I was.
Given a couple of days off to think about it, I realized that all the scenarios (except for the coaches' comment) were generally tolerable as one shot statements.They didn't make me happy but they didn't really cross over the line.
I had to be honest with myself and realize that I had worked 8 straight days doing 21 games in that time frame. A lot for me. I was slightly burned out.
Do I think that todays players are a bit less civil? Yes. Am I going to do my little part to emphasize a more positve approach? Yes again. But I do need to remember that it's still a free society (last time I checked) and disagreement is OK.

If you read my earlier post, you'd see I agree - attitude is more important that the actual words spoken most of the time.

If the coach is someone I know well, and he and I have a history of good natured comments, then, "Hey, Blue, how many of those kids are yours?" has and entirely different meaning than the same words shouted across the field by an agitated coach who has been chirping all game about one thing or another. The first gets a smile or a smart-alec come-back; the second gets an ejection.

It is possible that a good-natured relationship exist between umpires and participants. The response to the question above in some cases may be, "Don't know, check with your wife".

Blue, I thought only horses slept standing up?
Response: Give the count by stomping your feet.

Blue, shake your head, your eyes are stuck!
Response: Hit yourself alongside the head, turn to that person and thank them.

Blue, you're missing a great game.
Response: Yeah, but they assigned me to this one.

Blue, when do the real umpires show up?
Response: When you get real players on the field.

Blue, can I get some help here?
Response: They way this game is going, you're gonna need a lot.

or

Sure, but I'm a worse coach than I am an umpire.

I do not suggest you respond in this manner to anyone. Like Tom noted, if you have a GOOD history with a coach or player, some levity can be appreciated even if it seems the joke is on you.

Dakota saw the two main ones, but didn't mention the lower confidence pre-emptive warnings imply. My thinking is when a call is obviously correct, no one is really unhappy with us, although if it's the third out in the bottom of the seventh, they have to blame someone. We should not be paying attention to whether a catcher is cute or not, let alone saying it in writing. The catcher wiping the plate after you mentioned it seemed to be showing you up and had to be stopped.
Obviously, I strongly support your last sentence (I try always to never let the comments influence my calls, or to take it out on the players.).

I for one, get peeved when I call a ball, and the defensive coach yells from the dugout "where was that pitch, catch?", and she answer him. To me, this is an attempt to show up the umpire. When the sides switch, I'll calmly and quietly tell him, "Coach, I'm not conducting a pitching clinic and neither are you or your catcher. Don't ask her again where a pitch was that I called. I consider it arguing strikes and balls which I don't allow." Then, I turn around and walk back to the plate. 99.9% of time, I don't hear anything else. If I even think I do, I'll give him a dirty look, that should stop any other comments for the rest of the game. If I do hear something, he's gone. I've only tossed 2 coaches for this in 17 years, 1 ASA, 1 NFHS.

I also am getting frustrated with strike zone calls. As I have grown in experience (both mine and the level of play that I am calling), my strike zone has been shrinking. I have called mostly H.S. varsity and H.S. tournaments this year, along with 18U/16U/14U travel tournaments, men's FP and women's FP and I am calling almost a book zone.

The ball has to be fully below the arm pits, and I still often call ones through the knees, though that is guaranteed to generate catcalls and some golf references. I will not go in inch inside, but maybe an inch+ outside. In nearly 100 games this season, I know my strike zone and can almost call it with my eyes closed. Many knowledgable people have said that I am very consistant, and that makes me feel good.

So Why - when I do not call that pitch 2 inches inside, or 4-5 inches outside - do I get a 13 to 15 yr old girl stomping her foot, shaking her ponytail, and giving me that look of disgust? I understand that they throw that pitch outside trying to get the batter to bite. But if the batter doesn't go for it, then do they think that I should give them a strike call? Someone is training these kids that the plate must be 24" wide. I don't know if it is their coaches, or their own (unrealistic) expectations, or (most likely) that too many umpires are calling toooooo wide a strike zone.

Just like there are "outie's," are there also "strikie's?" Umpires that want to call strikes; that want to move the game along? I don't know about the rest of you, but I am seldom in a hurry to go home. I really love this game, and I enjoy being out there with the young girls (and adults) that play FP softball. I want to see hitting, fielding, sliding, etc. What I don't like are too many batters swinging at bad pitches. Maybe it is their own mistakes; but maybe also they are protecting themselves because those pitches are being call strikes.

WMB

[Edited by WestMichBlue on Jul 10th, 2003 at 06:16 PM]

Give them a ball's width on either side of the plate. I was taught that by ISF umpires, and you'll call more strikes that way. It is a hitable pitch, don't cheat the pitcher. Become a 'pitcher's umpire' and believe me, the games will have more batters hitting and less walks.

"Give them a ball's width on either side of the plate"

Elaine - please define "ball's width." If you mean the inside edge of the ball is touching the plate (the outside edge is then 4" off the plate) then I fully agree. I even go an inch further to the outside. So from outside edge of ball to outside edge, my strike zone is 26" wide(4"+17"+5") from the waist down. (Much narrower at the top.)

But if you are saying that the inside edge of the ball is a "ball's width" off the plate, then NO WAY! It is those balls 3" - 4" off the plate that I see pitchers and catchers expecting to be called strikes. That is what is frustrating me. Who is teaching those kids that those balls should be strikes?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Become a 'pitcher's umpire'

Interesting comment because I have been a pitching coach for many years. I love the inside corner pitch at the knees which, when well placed, is almost unhittable. I've taken a lot of catcalls over the years for calling that pitch. (Especially at younger levels where the knees are only 12" off the ground and the catcher's are too far back. All the fans see is F2 catching the ball on her shoe tops!)

But I like hitting also, and I see too many players swinging at pitches that are 4"-5" outside. (By that I mean with an air gap of 4"-5" between the closest edge of the ball and the plate.) I think that they are swinging at them because they are being call strikes (when they shouldn't be).

WMB

"Give them a ball's width on either side of the plate"

yikes!!!! no way, absolutely not

(yes, define what you mean by that criteria ... if you truly mean the ball is inches off the edge of the plate and you're calling that a strike, then that is just wrong)


"It is a hittable pitch, don't cheat the pitcher."

our job does not include making subjective allowances on the strike zone for batters or for pitchers ... if you're calling strikes on pitches that are inches off the plate then you are just confusing everyone on the diamond (pitchers, batters, coaches, fans, other umpires, etc)

Ok, calm down. You call your zone, I'll call mine. I was trained by ISF umpires and Merle's staff on plate mechanics and received 'excellent' on every evaluation I had at many, many tournaments including Nationals, Regionals, etc. by the ASA National Umpire Staff.


:rolleyes:

This is customarily taught at clinics and I assume what Elaine is referring to.

As far as being a pitcher's umpire, that should only be when the hitters are dominating the pitcher, like slow pitch. In FP, most pitchers have the advantage, so I don't think we should help them, although I respect Elaine's evaluations.

I also believe that we should all strive to have similar strike zones with the differences being individual perception and not pre-planned strategies.

Thank you, Cecil!

If it is a hitable pitch, and I'm not talking way outside or way inside and the edge of the ball just "brushes" the plate, it's a strike folks. We get paid to call strikes and outs, not balls and safe. Think about it.
I'm not talking cheating the batters, either. Once you have enough experience and confidence, you don't worry about your zone or what any one says about it.

Sounds tight.
 

Elaine,
Sounds like my zone.
...And in Baseball, it's one ball in and two balls out.
I like it, and yes, those pitches are very 'hittable'.
mick

What I have found effective is working with the catcher espicially at the upper levels 14+, where you have someone who specializes as a catcher not just someone whose turn it is to catch. Also, when she first comes out I remind her how many warmup pitches the pitcher has left and quietly tell her I have two rules: 1) I don't get hit and 2) what I call you agree with. If the pitcher asks about the pitch she will tell her get it up or move it over and if the coach asks I expect her to tell the coach that it missed the zone.

I have been doing this for at least 10 years in both baseball and softball and have never had a problem with it.

I could imagine doing this in a slow pitch game :)

Little doubt that there would be some extremely short games due to lack of personnel.

I work mostly HS and college baseball, but the parallels between baseball and FP are definitely there.

Umpires do not have problems working the strike zone in and out. Being good and consistent up and down is the key.

I used to work a lot of FP and the worst ball/strike umpires are the same in both FP and baseball -- they have no timing and are calling the pitch right as the ball hits the glove. These umpires call a lot of shin-high strikes (they already decided it was a strike feet in front of the plate, before the ball drops) and get constant grief for it. I've seen more of this in softball, and I think it is because many FP umpires are faster in calling pitches than their baseball brethren and because of the nature of the pitches.

Rich

is there some way to diagram what some of you are calling strikes ??

"one ball in and two balls out" in my opinion, is very wrong, unless i'm not envisioning what you are suggesting

the job is to follow the rules ... we seem to complain enough when coaches (etc) have their own interpretations, so why are you creating the same situation?

inside edge of the ball on the outside edge of the plate = strike ... period

bobbrix,
What I think most are describing is how most of us were taught that any part of the ball crosses any part of the plate it is a strike. Meaning place the ball with the very edge touching the plate (the rest of the ball toward the batters box) now lift that up to the height of the batter and that is the edge of the strike zone. I have seen WAY too many girls (I do ASA JO and FED SB only) that won't hit the inside pitch they think I am crazy for calling that a strike. I agree that in a perfect world everyone would have the same strike zone and it would not vary at all game to game night to night but that will never happen. Everyone has a different zone get used to what is called that game and hit what s/he is going to call. Just as I tell my pitcher's if s/he ain't gonna call it then don't throw it, the batter needs to know if s/he is gonna call it we better hit it. One other pet peave of mine is the low strike. Does everyone agree that the bottom and top of the zone is based on the batter positioned at the plate?? It seems in the lower levels coaches want the girls all the way in the back of the box to "slow down" the pitcher and give you more time to see the ball. What they can't believe is that now the ball that crosses their batter mid shin is now a strike as it was knee high when it crossed the plate.

Correct, Dave - the strike zone stays over the plate no matter where the batter is standing.

In rec "fast" pitch - in quotes, because these pitches many times have a bit of an arc, the pitcher are slow and the coaches will put the batters up in the box, and then complain with a pitch that is dropping down across the batters face is a strike.

There are many variations of this theme...

A skilled pitcher with a lot of movement catches the outside edge, but by the time it hits the catcher's glove, the pitch is obviously well outside.

etc., etc.

He was describing baseball - not as far outside as you think.

Good call, Dakota.
5-1/2" ;)
mick