Ball Hits Hands on Swinging Strike

nickdangerME · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 07, 2003, 02:41pm

11/12 LL blowout. B1 choking up mightily against dominating fast pitcher. B1 swings early and awkwardly at high, inside change-up, combining with F2 popping up to block my view. Ball dribbles towards F1, who throws to F3 for the out. Offensive coach calls time and asks what the call was and why it wasn't HBP. I tell him I didn't see contact, only the fair ball result. I ask BU what he saw and he replies that he saw the bat strike the ball. Play stands without any guff and is inconsequential to the game's outcome.

Between innings, BU mentions that it was a weird, slow-motion play and he saw the ball hit both her hands and the bat, but that the hands are part of the bat! I know that theory is wrong, but it gets me thinking about the play. Should it make any difference whether the ball first hit the bat and then the hands, or vice versa? Assume an x-2 count. If the ball discernably hit the bat first and then the hands (say rolling down the barrel an inch or two before contacting the hands), shouldn't it be a simple foul ball with the batter contacted while in the box? Then the batter lives to see another pitch. Alternatively, if the hands were out front and the ball hit them first before glancing off the bat itself, shouldn't it be strike 3? (I'm assuming that the dropped 3rd strike on such a play is a nullity because the ball is instantaneously dead when it contacts the batter.)

greymule · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 07, 2003, 03:08pm

I had one recently where the ball clearly "dinged" against the metal bat but also pinched the kid's finger painfully. No question it hit both bat and hand, virtually simultaneously. Dribbler to F1. I let it stand, but I don't really know what the right call should have been.

Horatio

AlabamaBlue · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 07, 2003, 03:20pm

If it hits hands then bat, dead ball strike. If it hits bat then hands, foul ball.

To keep it clear in your head, replace the hands with any other part of the body. If it hit her foot and then hit the bat, what would the call be? If it hit the bat and then her foot, what would the call be? The hands are a part of the batter and are treated the same as any other body part.

rafking · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 07, 2003, 03:45pm

Quote:

If it hits hands then bat, dead ball strike. If it hits bat then hands, foul ball.

If hand, then bat - Would it be a foul as I could not see this as the third strike causing an out?

AlabamaBlue · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 07, 2003, 04:15pm

Again, what if it would have hit her leg, arm, head, or any other body part while she was swinging?

A pitched ball that strikes the batter anywhere on the body is an immediate dead ball. Anything that happens after it hits the batter has no bearing on the ruling. If the batter was swinging when she got hit, then it's a strike. Period. If she already has 2 strikes on her, that's strike 3 and she's out.

Why can't you see it being strke 3?

rafking · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 07, 2003, 04:25pm

If she misses the ball, then yes, strike three and batter out. But ball hits any part of her body, as she swings and somehow connects with the ball (fair or foul), then it's foul ball/ dead ball. If two strikes already, then no out.

LT · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 07, 2003, 04:38pm

We have strike 3.....Alabamablue got it correct...

AlabamaBlue · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 07, 2003, 04:43pm

Quote:

But ball hits any part of her body, as she swings and somehow connects with the ball (fair or foul), then it's foul ball/ dead ball. If two strikes already, then no out.

Why? Is this from a rule book, or just the way you think it should be?

JEL · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 07, 2003, 05:17pm

ASA Rule 8, section 1. THE BATTER BECOMES A BATTER-RUNNER
F. (Fast pitch only) When a pitched ball not swung at nor called a strike touches any part of the batter's person or clothing. It does not matter if the ball strikes the ground before hitting the batter. The batters hands are not to be considered a part of the bat.
EFFECT
1.The ball is dead. The batter is entitled to one base without liability to be put out.
EXCEPTION: If no attempt is made to avoid being hit, the batter will not be awarded first base unless it is ball four.
2.If batter is hit anywhere on the body, including the hands, while swinging at the pitch, the ball is dead and a strike is called. If it is strike three, the batter is out.

If the out had not been made, the defensive coach would have been the one to question it, if he knows the ruling.
It is difficult to see hit hands, and I'm still amazed at the number of people who think the hands are part of the bat (umpires included!)

ALSO Foul Ball (ASA definition) F.
Touches the batter or the bat in the batter's hand(s) A SECOND TIME while the batter is within the batter's box.

[Edited by JEL on Jul 7th, 2003 at 05:23 PM]

rafking · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 07, 2003, 11:05pm

Quote:

Why? Is this from a rule book, or just the way you think it should be?

The rule book says 'while swinging' it would be a strike. It does not differentiate between swing/miss and swing/connect, so your ruling (strike three) seems accurate.
Thanks for the clarification.