dead or foul

[bethsdad]

I know the results are the same for both calls ,but I was just wondering what the correct call should be. When the batter hits the ball and it hits her in the batters box is it foul or dead.....or both? Most umps I see call it foul. Brian

[Roger Greene]

Depends.

If you are the field umpire, you call dead ball and let the plate umpire decide if batter was in the box or not.

If you are the plate umpire, you call a foul ball when the batted ball hits the batter in the batter's box, and all foul balls are dead balls when they become foul.

Roger Greene

[whiskers_ump]

This is wried. I had the exact thing happend in the 14U State tournament this weekend. I am BU, batter hits ball,
ball hits foot, I call "dead ball". Coach wants conference
which I grant. "Blue why did you kill that play. It ended
up in fair ground?" "My girl would have beat it out!"
"Right coach, as soon as she gets up off the ground and can
hobble again." [batter was in the box]

glen

[Skahtboi]

There is the mechanic that some associations teach where either umpire calls "dead ball," and then the plate umpire verbally rules on it by saying "in the box," or "out of the box, batter's out."

[MichaelVA2000]

"There is the mechanic that some associations teach where either umpire calls "dead ball," and then the plate umpire verbally rules on it by saying "in the box," or "out of the box, batter's out."

Skahtboi

Have to be careful with that one. Last week after doing a semi-pro baseball game where a batter fouled one off his foot, I killed the play by yelling "dead ball, hit 'em in the box!" Next morning I was behind the dish for a 18U Girls fastpitch softball game and when the same play occured I killed the play with: Dead ball, hit her in the box! While the batter was picking her bat up she looked me right in the eyes and said "did not, it hit me in the thigh." The catcher giggled, I was speechless.

Michael

[SC Ump]

Originally posted by Skahtboi
There is the mechanic that some associations teach where either umpire calls "dead ball," and then the plate umpire verbally rules on it by saying "in the box," or "out of the box, batter's out."

I've never been to one of the "Windlestat" or other professional baseball umpiring schools, but have heard that they teach that "dead ball" is only a situation, never a call to be made. They teach that in this situation the proper call for the base umpire is "TIME!" and for the plate umpire is "FOUL!"

They instruct that if a ball in play becomes a deadball and the play needs to be stopped, "time" should be called. I was told that if someone at the school called "Deadball!", that the experienced umpires, i.e. instructors, would all huddle around the ball and have a mock funeral for the baseball.

I'm not saying I agree with this, only that I have heard it is taught.

[Roger Greene]

Originally posted by SC Ump
[..., but have heard that they teach that "dead ball" is only a situation, never a call to be made. They teach that in this situation the proper call for the base umpire is "TIME!" and for the plate umpire is "FOUL!"

They instruct that if a ball in play becomes a deadball and the play needs to be stopped, "time" should be called. ... [/B]

I can buy that. It is logical.
Roger Greene

[Dakota]

Originally posted by Roger Greene

I can buy that. It is logical.
Roger Greene [/B]

But, it is not what is written in the ASA Umpire's Manual.

ASA teaches that the proper call is DEAD BALL. Quoting the manual "Our best advice would be to stay calm, make an emphatic call, ARMS HIGH IN THE AIR, and call DEAD BALL. ... Once you make your dead ball call, enforce the penalty. The proper DEAD BALL call serves many purposes. First, it kills the play to avoid further confusion. Secondly it give you, the umpire, the opportunity to clear the cob webs and make the proper call. ... there is no real RUSH. ... "

Their point is it allows you to calmly determine HPB, hit by a batted ball in the box, or hit by a batted ball out of the box, checking with your partner if you need to, etc.

[AlabamaBlue]

Have to be careful with that one. Last week after doing a semi-pro baseball game where a batter fouled one off his foot, I killed the play by yelling "dead ball, hit 'em in the box!" Next morning I was behind the dish for a 18U Girls fastpitch softball game and when the same play occured I killed the play with: Dead ball, hit her in the box! While the batter was picking her bat up she looked me right in the eyes and said "did not, it hit me in the thigh." The catcher giggled, I was speechless.

Michael

Crazy, but I heard this exact same story over a year ago...

[DownTownTonyBrown]

The explanation I have heard is that the proper call for a batter hit by their own batted ball is "Dead Ball." Not foul ball but dead - the reason being that a portion of the batter's box is in fair territory... The ball may have settled in fair territory... Kill the play and then follow-up with explanation of why and make the appropriate final call of either Foul (batter was in the box) or Batter is Out (batter was out of the box).

The 'Dead' versus 'Time' debate is slightly humorous. I know clinicians get a kick out of doing a little play acting and I can just see several of them gathered around a motionless ball with their hats over their hearts and one, or several of them, down on one knee mimicking a prayerful countenance.

This crap is somewhat entertaining but it also pokes fun at the umpire that called Dead rather than Time.

In my opinion... Time is how I release myself from future action as I regain my proper position behind the plate. TIME is a call made when there is no action occurring. (You don't yell time as a prelude to an interference call, or when the ball is thrown into dead ball territory, etc.)DEAD BALL is a call made to stop further playing action - some action is happening, we are going to stop, and there will be no further playing action. If this line of thought is correct, then the proper call is Dead Ball... not Time.

I'm not a clinician... yet. Perhaps there is some other reason to use Time. ???

[CecilOne]

Originally posted by SC Ump
I've never been to one of the "Windlestat" or other professional baseball umpiring schools, but have heard that they teach that "dead ball" is only a situation, never a call to be made. They teach that in this situation the proper call for the base umpire is "TIME!" and for the plate umpire is "FOUL!"

They instruct that if a ball in play becomes a deadball and the play needs to be stopped, "time" should be called. I was told that if someone at the school called "Deadball!", that the experienced umpires, i.e. instructors, would all huddle around the ball and have a mock funeral for the baseball.

I'm not saying I agree with this, only that I have heard it is taught. [/B]

I think it's a useless distinction invented for evaluatorsor to make the school unique, but either way play is stopped, the ball is non-playable (comatose if not dead) and there is either a foul or an out.
Also, we would have fewer embarassing moments if we dropped this compulsion to make a sentence out of every call. Pronouns and verbs are not needed. And the first person pronouns imply subjectivity and personal opinion rather than objective application of the rules.