Illegal Pitch?
 

Check out this youtube link and let me know what you think for ASA and FED. This is only a side view. When looking at it from behind the plate about half the ball is visible at the top of the motion.

2012-06-11_21-05-12_252.mp4 - YouTube

Thanks
Tom

You tell us - what rule in ASA and NFHS do you think she violated? Look it up... then say something like "I think she violated rule x.x.xx because it appears to me she did yyy." Don't just post a video and say "do you think she's illegal, and give me the rule references, please."

Double touch, illegal in both FED and ASA.

Agree, and 1 or 2 feet in contact is the ASA/NFHS difference.

I see that your post is a mp4 file. I have been looking for an editor for mp4 with no luck. Do you know one?

I believe it is illegal based on FED 6.1.4.b and ASA 6.3.b and 6.3.c. I didn't ask for a rules reference, just an opinion. I can look things up myself. Had a long discussion with her coach about this last night. This is why I posted it here.

I don't

Free? Dunno. There are lots of commercial editors, including many low priced ones (depending on your definition of "low"), such as Nero Video.

But when you talk with a partner or the issue comes to a UIC, you need to let them know what you are seeing that makes you suspiscious.

Based upon your statement that part of the ball disappears into the glove, I would agree she separates and returns to bring the hands together.

I would have to see how she adjusted the first violation before moving onto the second.

I would say...
 

Illegal because she comes past the hip twice.

Edit: Actually it appears she comes past the hip 3 times.

Thanks, Tom.
Don't care about free, just ease and quality. Do you know anything about this one?
MP4 Editor, How to Edit MP4 Video Files with MP4 Video Editor

I see no smiley face, but surely you are joking...

Maybe NCASAUmp knows a good editor. He is up on that tekkie stuff (but won't fix your computer) :D

I agree, double touch, illegal in both FED and ASA.

No, I don't, but from the information on their web site, I see they are Chinese. The software may be great, but I would not give my cc number to a Chinese software company.

It would do you a great service to find a specific rule reference for what you believe this to violate.

I had a phone call from a coach at the 18 Gold Qualifier this past weekend in Florida (I was in Las Vegas, instead), asking about a TEAM FLA pitcher doing a similar thing that the umpire insisted was legal. As did the UIC (also state UIC).

The coach said (I wasn't there, just repeating his statements) that in an advanced umpire clinic, he was told 6.3.B (removes one hand from the ball and returns the ball to both hands) only applied if the ball was actually and completely placed inside the glove a second time, that despite the hands obviously touching together several times on most pitches, the other "touches" didn't count (in the violation commonly named "double-touch").

I may have missed that clinic. Am I missing something here?

Just a suggestion. I keep one credit card just for those transactions where I have doubts; with a very low limit and consistent monitoring on line. I have declined payments before, had the account numbers changed when the account appeared compromised; and closed the account to another bank the one time I felt the customer support wasn't supportive enough.

Completely new one on me. 6-1-E says "shall bring the hands together". Any clinic I have ever been to has indicated a pitcher only has to touch the hands together to fulfill this requirement. Not sure how you get from the first touch to the second now requiring the ball to actually be placed inside the glove.

Not sure about the situation you have posted, but, based on the original video posted, even if the 2nd touch required the ball to be completely inside the glove, would we not now have a violation of 6-3-C? Once she has separated the hands and swung the arm back, has she not started her forward motion once the arm starts to come forward? Touching again, then dropping the arm to the rear a 2nd time would seem to me to be a stoppage and reversal of forward motion.

Not only did I miss that clinic, but I also received rule books that did not have that new change stated.

A great video editor for .mp4 is Apple's Quick Time.

6-3-B --- Violation
6-3-C --- Violation

I find that, well, let's say "questionable". Hand and glove coming together only counts the first time, but not the next two or three times unless the ball/hand is completely submerged into the glove?

Think I'll wait for the clarification to come out before I address this to anyone else.

Not being too critical????
 

Technically, the pitcher touched twice but, has she gained any advantage, especially at game speed, just say'n?

Where in the rule book does it say anything about only if gaining advantage? You enforce the rules as written otherwise you are picking and choosing what you personally wish to enforce.

MHSAA (Michigan) would not say it is illegal. It has been sent to the fed rules committee I believe. ASA district UIC says definitely illegal. She has changed to a legal motion that should work for FED and ASA.

Well
 

6.2 says the pitch starts when the hands are separated once they've been placed together

and I believe 6.3.D says "must not make two revolutions..."

But the pitcher can pass the hip twice and make less than two revolutions. I believe the point is that the number of times the ball passes the hip is irrelevant to FP rules.

I believe the language comes from RS 40.E. This pitcher is coming forward past the hip three times yet she isn't making two full revolutions.

And, if she waved her arms back and forth 8 times BEFORE bring her hands together, that could be 8 more times past the hip, without ANY revolutions yet.

My point is, there is no rule that addresses "past the hip" That is why I suggested finding a rule that applied to exactly THAT language. You would lose a protest based on misapplication of the rule because you used language that isn't in the rule; even if the pitch motion IS illegal, you have an obligation to reference rulebook terminology, since misapplication is protestable, even if your judgment isn't.

I think 95% of the good pitchers I've seen (maybe more) pass the hip exactly 3 times (back, forward, forward) while making their completely legal pitch that includes approx 1 1/3 or 1 1/2 revolutions (i.e. less than 2).

ASA has, to the best of my knowledge, always allowed the dropping of the arm to the side when separating as of no importance. However, that is not what happened in the video offered.

ASA 6-3-c: The pitcher must not make a stop or reversal of the forward motion after separating the hands.
In the video, the pitcher stops after reaching the 1:00 position (approximate), appears to bring the hands together again, and then reverses direction. IMJ she clearly violates this rule.

I should have quoted. I was referring to Deputy's assertions regarding passing the hip (which is irrelevant). I agree the video is an IP.

In that video I dont see anything that would make me think IP.