Well, Andy, all we, (and I know you see them too, hence "we") seem to hear is how every umpire has their own interpretation and the coaches don't know what to expect and this and that.........

Don't quite remember anyone saying, "boy, Blue was all over that LBR violation". I still don't think it is hard to understand. Those who enjoy the benefits of proper training usually get it right. It is when those who aren't as lucky as some, or choose to ignore their training, decide how it should be instead of how it is seems to be the only time anyone mentions the damn thing.

It is a control instrument, not a damn strategy. We all know a better way to control the game and foolishness, but no one wants to be the first to take that step.

LBR?
BR runs pass first base and turns inside, and with out stopping, walks back down the line to first base and just prior to touching first base and without hesitation takes off for second. The pitcher had control of the ball in the circle prior to the BR intially touching first base and made no attempt on runner BR, would you consider this a LBR violation?

Depends on the rule set.

NCAA, no. Most others, yes.

Absolutely. (ASA)

heck, i even had the girl touch first and head for second. guess because they had female coaches that played college ball, they could try that play. may be not ok or ok (don't know) for college.

Anyways, she was called out for lbr

Sorry for not being active on this after I started it... darn work gets in the way.

So the runner on third was off 3rd (about 6' down the line), and then the ball was in the circle and after the girl who walked went past 1B, I thought a no-brainer call on the LBR since she did not go to third nor to home. This is when he told me that walking toward second was considered a play.

What I meant by saying "tightened up". If this is now the case that walking in the circle could be considered a play. Too much judgement here. And yes, given this definition, coaches will start using this as a strategy to get that runner on 3rd home.

I guess the best thing is to tell the pitcher to catch the ball and stop and not look around.

Interesting. This exact play happened this past weekend in a PONY tournament, thought for sure it was LBR, but said it was a legal play. And it was my baserunner who did it :eek:

It should be legal in all books, IMO. There is little justification for treating the overrunning BR differently from any other runner WRT the LBR. Just give her the one stop like everyone else has.

I have always thought the opposite, that the NCAA version I believe created by TW at U of W gives the offense an unfair advantage.

The difference with every other base is that runners at those bases that overrun ARE in jeopardy, and MUST immediately decide to advance or return.

It seems to me that allowing the overrun without any jeopardy already gives the offense an advantage. So, while protected, they still get to avoid making (and demonstrating) a decision if they are advancing or simply returning? Seems to me to be two bites out of the apple. You can/should get one or the other, not another free shot while without jeopardy.

JMO.

They got their one stop when they turned and committed to 1B.

Seems overrunning then changing directions IS the equivalent of a stop.

(Yeah - justlike Irishmafia said a few minutes ago!!)
;-)

The rule does not distinguish whether F1 has the ball in the circle. So, if the ball is not back in the circle yet when the BR turns, that is not her "stop". But, as the rule is written, she is now committed to 1B anyway.

Of course it does. The "rule" is not in effect, thereby not applicable unless F1 has possession of the ball in the circle.

We had this discussion some time ago, last year, or before.

I was making the point that if the BR overruns and makes her turn back toward 1B before the ball is in the circle, that the "committed to first" does not apply, and she still has her one stop.

I was very lonely in making that case. IIRC, you and everyone else said that didn't matter. Once she headed back to 1B, and the ball was in the circle (regardless of the order of those two) she was committed.

What you are saying now is if she turns back to 1B before the ball is in the circle, she can go to within a step of 1B, and legally take off for 2B?

NCAA
12.21.6.5 The batter-runner, after overrunning first base, must immediately
return nonstop to first base or, if she does not retouch first base, must
make an attempt to advance to second. If after passing the base, the base
runner is heading back toward first base within the basepath extended, she
may make a decision to go to either base. However, stepping beyond the
extended basepath in foul territory commits the base runner to first base
while stepping beyond the basepath toward the second-base side commits
the base runner to second base.