How would you handle?
 

U2 calls illegal pitch by signaling delayed dead ball. B1 hits pitch for a single, runner goes from1st to third. I, Partner says nothing and I as U1 incorrectly interpret the rule and disallow B1's hit and award a ball and put runner at 2nd. Coach argues I don't change my call. I go to my partner after inning, he tells me He didn't want to say anything since I already made my call. I say, if you knew I was wrong, why didn't you get with me and make the call correct. He says, " A good umpire would never rule against his partner". I eventually apologized to the coach and everything was cool.

Not much of an Umpire if he allowed a mistake to go uncorrected. We see this often in MLB and it drives me crazy.

Where's the PU in all of this? Unless you are using unfamiliar designations, which I suspect you are.

I will take this as U1-PU; U2-BU. B should be at least "2" with a runner one, but that part is self-explanatory.

Your partner is correct, he has no authority to even seek to overturn your call. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean he shouldn't try to get your attention to discuss the play and improper ruling. At that point, your partner can provide you with more, possibly better, information to allow you to correct the ruling.

This is an improper rule interpretation/application. The plate umpire has the duty to talk about the rule with the base umpire. If they can't agree, then, dare I say it, get a rule book out and get it right.

How Would You Handle
 

I've been taught the most important thing is to get it right. The players should not be penalized for an umpire not knowing the rules, especially if his/her partner(s) knows the decision is wrong. Another thing I've been taught, NEVER bring a rule book onto the field (coach or umpire). If you're not sure, look it up during your post-game with your partner.

A good umpire would, if unsure about the ruling, always ask his partner.
If the both of you are not sure, then do what you think is most fair!
The coaches of both teams have the right to protest, if they think you're wrong in your ruling. At that point, don't worry! Others are in charge. They will then with the rule-book in the hand look it up and make the correct call. So you might play it over from a certain point in the game or the complete game. But things can be corrected, afterwards.

Actually, he is not much of an umpire if he just charges in to the rescue, either.

If that is the "most important thing", there is still a process that must be followed.

Any umpire manual I've ever read has been very clear... you do not overrule your partner's call. As Mike said, you can try to get his attention, but you don't go charging in to the rescue without being asked by your partner.

Whenever this topic comes up, many of us seem to ignore the role the coach has to play in this. The coach should know what I said above... one umpire cannot overrule another... and he should know the process to follow to get the other umpire involved. If the coach is convinced the umpire is incorrect in rule application, the coach should protest the ruling. This should result in an umpire conference, where the correct ruling will hopefully be arrived at. Note that this "on field" protest is always available, even when protests to the league, association, commissioner, etc., are not allowed.

The coach, knowing the ruling was wrong, should have done his part, too, to ensure a proper ruling.

Yes, but this same rulebook tells us to correct a RULES mistake. This is not a "call" - this is a misapplication of a rule. Fix it.

I've always understood the call to be Illegal Pitch. The rest of it isn't a call but an enforcement of a rule. And (perhaps mistakenly), if in this situation, I'd want to get with my partner to understand what he was doing. Or conversely, if there was an award to be made, I've never seen a responsibility chart for making the award.
For example, runner on 1st, ball is hit fair and then bounces out of play. PU calls it dead. Runner stops at second. As BU, I'd send her to third because I was there even though the dead ball was the PU's call. Is that wrong?

Am I reading this wrong? If U2 (base umpire?) made the original IP call isn't he/she already involved. Doesn't this call "belong" to U2?

For those that suggest a protest - in some states for HS ball protests are not allowed. You don;t have anyone backstopping you so you have to get it right on the field.

If you see a rule being improperly applied you don't have to "charge in". You can calmly speak to your partner away from the coaches and then let the umpire who made the initial ruling make the final ruling.

I don't think Bono or the Edge know the rules well enough to make this call with authority.

Most are missing the point. Yes, it was the wrong award and here we have a bunch of umpires who are up in arms about getting the call right without a concern of how to go about it.

Whether you like it or not, there is a protocol and the manner in which the event unfolds affects the entire crew, not just the umpire who made the error.

Please fill us in on that protocol.

The on-field protest is always available, unless you are talking about 1 umpire.

Since the two umpires generally speaking have no reason to get together, how exactly do you suggest this be done? This question applies to you, too, Mike. (mbcrowder). As Mike (Irish) says, there is a protocol to be followed, and the coach should know that. It is within his control to get the umpires together.

I think the main problem to me is PU making the awards - I don't believe that would happen on most fields, but say BU makes the awards and does it incorrectly. I see nothing wrong with PU calling time and the umpires getting together. I don't believe anyone in my association would have a problem with this either. I'm not advocating getting together to try to change a judgement call no matter how egregious. A rule misinterpretation should be fixed if possible. No coach intervention necessary.

Had the following happen a week or so ago, not on my field. Runners on 2nd and 3rd, ball hit to pitcher, who throws home to F2 (not sure of the ages, but it was a younger kid game). F2 catches it, touches the plate ahead of the runner. PU calls runner out. Coach goes ballistic, yells at PU for a while (probably should have been tossed, but I don't think anyone is surprised that a PU who messed up a simple Force rule also didn't know when to eject), and leaves. BU, who was NOT a rookie, did nothing other than keeping the assistant coach away from the conversation.

At our group post-game, our UIC admonished BU pretty strongly for not approaching PU to see if this was just a REALLY bad judgement call, or a rules misinterpretation - and when learning it was a rules mistake, fixing it.

I've had occasions where I wasn't sure exactly what my partner was calling or ruling on and approached him/her to get clairification. I can't ever recall a situation like the one in the OP where my partner totally kicked a ruling that needed to be corrected. There have been judgement calls that I didn't agree with, but judgement is judgement and there is no way I am attempting to change my partner's judgement call.

I see no issue with initiating a conference with your partner when you are not sure what the call is or what ruling is being applied.

I agree, there is no problem with a conference, but that is how it needs to appear, two guys/gals/whatever discussing what just happened, not the PU interjecting him/her/whatself into the situation.

And in doing so, it would start with eye contact with my partner and have him/her/whatever come at least seem to be moving in my direction for a conversation. I do not want to do anything which even remotely makes it seem as if I am usurping his/her/whatever's authority. We all still have a game to officiate.

When all is settled in the discussion, the umpire needs to correct the error. If necessary, give both coaches a briefing on the updated ruling with reason. Better to do this away from the dugout or fans just so you can have a straight discussion without the *******s screaming over his/her/whatever shoulder and interrupting the conversation.

+1

+2

Didn't want to start a new string, so I'll just add here.

HS Varsity, NFHS, but it doesn't really matter. I have plate. Runner on 2B and a fly ball to slightly left of center. I came out from behind the plate and slightly up 3B line to get a good view because F6 had drifted into my line of vision.

I noticed partner had not moved from his position in C to come inside, and to be fair, he didn't really have time to get inside as this was not a high fly ball.

I saw the catch, and because of where my partner was, started to go up the line for help on a possible tag play at third.

Runner went to third, throw came to third late enough to not even warrant a call.

I returned to the plate area as defense is discussing the runner leaving early. Apparently, one of the infielders appealed to my partner. He called time out and walked in toward me announcing for all to hear that the appeal on the tag up was my call.

What would you have done?

Thanx.

Ruled on the appeal, then told my partner after the game that he needed to be not so lazy, get his butt inside in time to see the catch and runner.

Stayed home. Let's see - you've got catch, tag, and possible play at home if the ball gets away. What exactly was partner expecting to cover? If he stayed out, 3rd is his call.

If he stayed out OR came in that call at 3B is his/her call!! Last runner to 3B is base umpires call!! And that tag up is base umpires call.

Now what would I have done? Made sure time was called, walked to meet my partner and told them where nobody else could hear us that it was their call to make, now if you didnt' see it here is what I saw to help you make that call but that's your call.....and it was your call at 3B also. Again not to fault what anyone did, if you see your base umpire is out of position/not paying any attention to the play someone needs to see it so you may have to take that call at 3B but on a dead ball appeal like that I would take that time to make sure my partner knew that was their call and they should make it (possibly with my help since they saw NOTHING)

I prefer the other option stated in this thread. Somewhere down the road, another PU would get lambasted by this HS coach for NOT making the call, since you are making it in your game. Better this BU be corrected for being wrong than set up another umpire who is right.

I know what the correct mechanic is and who should make what call in this situation. The question was what would I have done in that situation and I answered that. I'm definitely correcting my partner, but not in the middle of the game. That is a post game or between innings conversation between me and him.

Steve - are you saying that this would look better:

BU: I have an appeal on the runner leaving early - Partner, that's your call!

PU: No it's not...by the manual, it's your call.

One of two things happens now

1) BU guesses at the appeal call since he had his back to the catch
2) BU and PU continue to argue about who the call belongs to

I don't like either of those options....

I like DaveASA/Fed's answer; tell the partner what you saw, and have him make the call (his call).

I also agree we don't need to argue about that on the field. If he doesn't grasp that it is his call after being told so (and I am thinking you get what I get when we tell a partner he screwed up, so this should be rare), THEN I agree jsut make the call and move on until postgame.

Thanx for the suggestions and comments.

I did what some have suggested.

After time was called, we met half-way from his position in C and home plate. After making his announcement to all that it was my call, I quietly told him, that no, sole runner is the BU responsibility. He started with the lead runner is the PU's responsibility at which I mentioned that the term "lead runner" applied to situations with more than 1 runner. I think he got it at that point.

He asked if I saw the runner tag up. I told him that I saw the runner take a couple of steps off the bag once the ball was hit, and then head back. But I did not actually see if she left early. Maybe that's something I should have been paying more attention to, but my immediate concern was possibly helping on a play at third, thinking he certainly had the tag up.

At that point, he turned around and gave a loud SAFE! call/signal and headed back to "C".

Regarding the comment about the head coach getting on another PU for not making a similar call, I don't think we need to worry about that. This particular HS coach is a local legend with multiple state championship teams including a string of maybe 5 to 6 years in a row. His team, staff, and former players celebrated his 500th softball victory last season. Even as a coach, I'm sure he knows a lot more about the HS rule set than I probably do.

After the game, my partner and I discussed it, and I got the feeling that he still thought this was my fault. There was no way he could get inside and watch the catch and the tag on a ball that was hit that hard. And I should have been able to help him out more than I did.

I think he used up his 3 strikes. First, by perhaps taking the play off in the first place. Second, by erroneously announcing that it was my call on the tag up. Third, by continuing to try to implicate me in his misadventures.

If he had conceded that he made a mistake, I could be more accepting. But it was more like, don't worry about what I did wrong, why weren't you able to help me out more.

He's a senior official, on our board since 1998. I'm just the rookie, I guess.

But I do read the book.

in hindsight and based on your op post, do you think you could have deviated from the prescribed mechanic on this play? It appears from the op description that yIou did not move towards 3b until after the catch (that is my reading). With the bu still at C, it would be extremely difficult for him to make an accurate judgement on a runner leaving early.

You handled the missteps of your partner putting you on the spot appropriately and he should have taken responsibility for knowing his duties on tag ups and whose call it is. Maybe next time he will and will learn from this snafu.

This type of play happens often in our game and the PU needs to be ready to help out on it IMO and it is what I do. I do not remember pregaming this deviation but I have deviated from from it a couple of times.