infield fly

pollywolly60 · #1 (**permalink**) Sun Jun 22, 2003, 07:13am

Is an infield fly call one that could or should be appealed? For example, fly ball hit directly behind second base, but still technically on the infield. Second base and shortstop both just look at it, and then at each other, but neither make a move for it. Center fielder moves in some, but doesn't come close to catching it. BU calls infield fly. Coach argues, wants to appeal to plate umpire. I'm thinking that's not even a call that should be appealed - once it is called it should stand. Any thoughts?

CecilOne · #2 (**permalink**) Sun Jun 22, 2003, 08:13am

First, the rule is could be caught by an infielder with ordinary effort; no geography, field lines, dirt/grass, base lines, caught or not, who catches it, etc. are involved. So your description clearly sounds like an infield(er) fly.

Second, either ump can ask the other ump for help on anything, but how could they change it? Once called, like fair or foul, the runners are controlled by the call so we can't undo it.
I hope it was the defense coach that complained, but I'm guessing it was offense; because they don't understand the rule protects the runners. What was the coach's argument?

Third, if there really was a rule issue, like not having two forcible runners or having two outs, that's a different can of worms.

IHSAIllini · #3 (**permalink**) Sun Jun 22, 2003, 09:04am

From your description, it sounds as if the man at the sacks called it after it hit the ground - which is a no-no. The infield fly call should be made loudly and clearly while the ball is inflight...doing otherwise is simply asking for trouble.

JMHO.

pollywolly60 · #4 (**permalink**) Sun Jun 22, 2003, 12:30pm

The coach (defense) argued that the ball could not have been caught with reasonable effort because neither second base nor shortstop even attempted to make the catch.
BU made the call correctly(mechanically, meaning while the ball was in flight).
Since the call did affect the runners, I agree that there is no need to even ask for the PU to rule on that. If you want to disuss it privately later for future reference, O.K., but I think you have to tell the coach "no" when he wants PU ruling on it.

CecilOne · #5 (**permalink**) Sun Jun 22, 2003, 02:03pm

But it is good professionalism and PR to talk even if it's just to say "Did you see anything I missed?" or "at least it's not raining".

That way, the coach should see the call is knowledge based and you are not ignoring him.

pollywolly60 · #6 (**permalink**) Sun Jun 22, 2003, 03:27pm

I can see where that might not be a bad idea. The last thing I want to do is appear to be a !@##$%^& and give the coach the impression that I'm more concerned about being right than getting it right.

Dakota · #7 (**permalink**) Sun Jun 22, 2003, 07:42pm

Quote:

Originally posted by pollywolly60
The coach (defense) argued that the ball could not have been caught with reasonable effort because neither second base nor shortstop even attempted to make the catch.

Well, tell the coach there is a difference between could be caught with ordinary effort, and fielders actually exerting ordinary effort!

bethsdad · #8 (**permalink**) Sun Jun 22, 2003, 11:58pm

First, the rule is could be caught by an infielder with ordinary effort; no geography, field lines, dirt/grass, base lines, caught or not, who catches it, etc. are involved. So your description clearly sounds like an infield(er) fly.

... Its not an infield fly if it goes fowl is it ? I don't think so, but I think I was wrong once before.

pollywolly60 · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 23, 2003, 06:23am

No, it is only an infield fly if fair.

Skahtboi · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 23, 2003, 12:39pm

Quote:

Originally posted by pollywolly60
No, it is only an infield fly if fair.

As a matter of fact, many clinicians will teach that if the ball is close to the foul line, the proper call should be (vociferously), "Infield fly, batter out if fair." That way there is no question. (Theoretically)

CecilOne · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 23, 2003, 02:40pm

Quote:

Originally posted by bethsdad
... Its not an infield fly if it goes fowl is it ? I don't think so, but I think I was wrong once before.

OK, everyone, mea culpa, mea culpa; I left out fair/foul in my focus on other aspects. And I should know better, given how many people can't seem to grasp this rule. Thank you for pointing it out.

And I've been wrong more than once before.

Elaine "Lady Blue" · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 23, 2003, 03:49pm

One thing that I'd like to add is the caliber of ball that is being played. For example if it was 12U rec on the above play--I wouldn't call it. Ordinary effort has to include the level of play by the player.
Also, the PU should call the infield fly, but the BU can help by sticking up his arm and pointing up! ...and you should try to call the IF at it's apex, not when it is on the way down! If it's a few feet from hitting the ground--forget it!

IRISHMAFIA · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Jun 23, 2003, 05:33pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Elaine "Lady Blue"
One thing that I'd like to add is the caliber of ball that is being played. For example if it was 12U rec on the above play--I wouldn't call it. Ordinary effort has to include the level of play by the player.
Also, the PU should call the infield fly, but the BU can help by sticking up his arm and pointing up! ...and you should try to call the IF at it's apex, not when it is on the way down! If it's a few feet from hitting the ground--forget it!

Nope, you never forget the Infield Fly. The only judgment is the ability of the player to catch the ball with ordinary effort, not whether to call it.

This is a correctable call.