To bail out or not to bail out?
 

As PU, runner on 2nd leaves so early noone can miss it. BU doesn't call it. Next pitch same thing, do you bail him out or let him twist in the wind?

You're in the best position to see it. If the runner left so early it caught your attention, call the infraction.

One code that specifically grants permission to the plate umpire to make that call is PONY.

"grants permission"? Are you kidding me?

One of the few times I am going to disagree...


To call it... you almost have to assume that he's not looking, or has no idea what he's looking at.

It sounds like a between innings chat to me..

and Yes sir, I AM aware that both fed mechanics and ASA mechanics dont forbid it. :)

grants permission. Must be another reason to Protect Our Nation's Youth.

I've done it ... had a guy who was a great slow pitch umpire, decided he wanted a taste of school ball. It was 20-0, he was living in "C" all night, ever other half inning. Had runners at first and third. Runner at first was darn near on top of 2nd before the pitch was out of the circle.

No, I'm not kidding you. The manual specifically says the plate umpire can call it. What's your problem with that?

My problem is that someone feels the need to "grant permission" to an umpire to call an observed infraction, especially one which is directly in the umpire's line of vision.

And remember, we are not talking about a "gotta think about it", but an obvious infraction.

What happened to our no quoting trolls policy?

You see it, you call it. You can discuss between innings if you need to, but leaving early is not a proprietary call - whoever sees it should call it, especially when it's obvious.

Agreed

For those of you that do, WHY do you do it?

(other than because you can)

How often do you do it?

Is it something you do with a seasoned partner or do you only do it with a rookie?

It's still something I would never do, and I would take great exception if it was called by the plate umpire while I was on the bases.

It's also one of those things that gets brought up at schools, and the consensus has always been that it's one of those things thats better left to the base umpire. (credibility).

Perhaps it's a regional thing. How often do I do it? As often as I see it. Seasoned partner or rookie? Probably more for the rookie, but not because of his rookiedom... but rather because the seasoned partner is more likely to have called it already.

I would call it EVERY time I see it - granting that unless it's at 2nd base I'm not likely to KNOW she left early. I would also not be offended in the least if my partner called one from PU while I was BU. Heck, I'll even go so far as to say that leaving early from 2nd base is more EASILY called by PU than BU, especially with a runner on 3rd base.

Gonna be in the minority here, but I'm with Darrell....

If I'm BU and my PU partner called that, I'm going to ask if he wants my opinion on balls and strikes.....to me, it makes both umpires look bad.

The PU looks bad for calling something happening 80 feet away and the BU looks bad because he is not calling something that is very close to him.

This call belongs to the BU, period!

What was your point, again?

Ill put it like this then, since you missed my point. He's twisting until the half inning when I can chat with him and figure out what is going on.

It's likely that YOU would not have failed to call it - you are not a rookie who either doesn't know the rules or doesn't know his responsibilities. PU should not ignore an obvious infraction just to appease a BU who is not doing his job (for whatever reason). Especially an infraction such as the OP where "everyone" saw it but BU. Twice. Allowing it to continue gives an advantage to the offense not intended by the rules, and DOES make the crew look bad.

And in our neck of the woods, making such a call is not abnormal. Making this call at third or first might generate some cause for consternation --- but 2B is right in the sight-line of the plate umpire.

I didn't miss your point; perhaps you missed my sarcasm. In the OPs example, the umpire crew (and especially the BU) already look bad and have lost credibility. Not making the call makes things worse wrt credibility.

That early in AZ requires :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :)

Sorry...not trying to be a jerk..just trying to get info. I apologize if I was rude.....

I do it for the same reason a U3 has the runner leaving 1B early with the bases loaded or 1&3, because it is in my line of vision as I am watching the pitcher's feet.

We all have different angles and just because you are standing in a certain spot doesn't mean you can see everything you need to see for every call. I've worked 6-umpire games and while you can try to surround all the plays, it is still possible to not have the necessary angle to see the whole play.

This is why when I have a question and a crew comes off the field, I don't ask, "Why didn't you call (enter infraction here)?" I ask, "what did you see on this play?"

The crew is the team and they should work as such. I certainly wouldn't expect my partner to be sitting back behind the plate snickering, "what a putz! Moron should be calling that runner out for leaving early." Especially if it is something that even the concession lady saw from the next field. :D

Isn't that the BU's job? :D

No worries; I didn't take what you wrote as rude.

Who usually calls a pitching lane violation?

Nobody! :D

This.......

And the umpire at 3rd isn't a BU?:cool:

Leaving early is like obstruction......if you see it........call it.

No need for permission.

Joel

I have called it several times behind the plate with a partner...always on a runner from 2nd....granted.....most of the times were with an unseasoned partner.

Once with a partner who admittedly was not paying attention.......

I do not go looking for boogers on baserunning infractions.....but when one grossly presents itself......I don't ignore it.

Joel

It must be a gross error on the Base Runner.

I have a few times........usually with lefties that I was familiar with.......Two were travel ball teammates of my daughter......their dads were not real happy with me.

Joel

This is a bit like the Mechanics Review topic, the part about whether calling in the partner's area is taboo or not. Are we being consistent with that one?
Why is it ok for a PU to call early at a base or OBS at base, but not ok for a BU to call OBS at the plate?

Maybe it is the wide range of field the BU has to cover and often such violation is not involved where the play is happening or anticipated, where a play at the plate, the PU is expected to be, well, at the plate with full attention to the runner, ball, defender and plate being in a much smaller viewing window.

I would suppose if the PU was way out of position and not getting the entire view, it would be possible the BU could call OBS, but s/he betting damn well be sure.

:D.
Good one...

I've seen this once, not in my game, but in one we were waiting to finish before taking the field before the next game.

High school game, R1 on 3rd, high deep fly to right near the foul line. PU is watching ball, fair/foul, catch, etc, and is a few steps up the 1BL. R1 had run more than halfway, but was returning as it became more obvious the ball would possibly be caught. F1, not paying enough attention, crashed into the runner - all behind the PU's peripheral vision, but BU saw it, and called it. No one complained he was calling OBS near the plate (kind of) or in PU's pond.