DP/DEFO Batting Order Problem

[SamNVa]

Team A only has 10 players, but decides to use a DP anyway. DP-Smith is the leadoff hitter and her counterpart DEFO-Jones is playing 3rd base. In the 3rd inning, F9 who was batting ninth makes the 3rd out and sprains her ankle during the lay and has to leave the game. DP-Smith goes in to play right field; all is good so far. Now in the fifth inning, DEFO-Jones comes to bat following the eighth batter with 2 outs. Neither the umpire nor either of the coaches realize that the automatic 3rd out should have been taken. DEFO-Jones strikes out for the apparent 3rd out and the teams change sides. In the sixth inningm DP-Smith comes to the plate and walks Before a pitch to the next batter Team B's coach approaches the umpire and points out the fact that DEFO-Jones made the last out during the last inning and DP-Smith lead off this inning.

So here's the question: Is this a simple BOO situation or is DEFO-Jones disqualified as an illegal substitute since she apparently batted for the injured F9 in the previous inning?

SamC

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by SamNVa
Team A only has 10 players, but decides to use a DP anyway. DP-Smith is the leadoff hitter and her counterpart DEFO-Jones is playing 3rd base. In the 3rd inning, F9 who was batting ninth makes the 3rd out and sprains her ankle during the lay and has to leave the game. DP-Smith goes in to play right field; all is good so far. Now in the fifth inning, DEFO-Jones comes to bat following the eighth batter with 2 outs. Neither the umpire nor either of the coaches realize that the automatic 3rd out should have been taken. DEFO-Jones strikes out for the apparent 3rd out and the teams change sides. In the sixth inningm DP-Smith comes to the plate and walks Before a pitch to the next batter Team B's coach approaches the umpire and points out the fact that DEFO-Jones made the last out during the last inning and DP-Smith lead off this inning.

Nope, cannot be BOO as that would have had to be brought to the umpire's attention in the offensive half of the previous inning. Unless Jones had reported as a substitute batter for the DP, she is an illegal batter for F9.

So here's the question: Is this a simple BOO situation or is DEFO-Jones disqualified as an illegal substitute since she apparently batted for the injured F9 in the previous inning?

SamC

Illegal batter. (4.7.B) Jones is now riding the pine.

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

Illegal batter. (4.7.B) Jones is now riding the pine. [/B]

Mike,
And here I was, worried about my writing/speaking skills. I'm gonna take lessons from you.

Originally posted by VaASAump
My writing skills aren't that great. [/B]

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by VaASAump

Mike,
And here I was, worried about my writing/speaking skills. I'm gonna take lessons from you.

[/B]

Yeah, tell a player, and probably most the coaches they are "riding the pine" and I bet you get a bundle of extremely confused looks.

Of course, you probably have a much better chance of "riding the pine" than you will of hearing the "crack of the bat" at a softball game anytime soon.

[SamNVa]

Ok Mike,

Since you were the only one to answer, consider this slight modification. In the sixth inning, the second batter in the batting order leads off and walks. Now the defensive coach comes out claiming that Team A is BOO since according to his book, DP-Smith should have led off the inning.

What do you tell the coaches in that case?

SamC

Can I answer?? Can I answer?? Can I answer??

(If Mike hasn't yet)

[SamNVa]

Sure, go ahead Sergio.

SamC

Originally posted by SamNVa
Ok Mike,

Since you were the only one to answer, consider this slight modification. In the sixth inning, the second batter in the batting order leads off and walks. Now the defensive coach comes out claiming that Team A is BOO since according to his book, DP-Smith should have led off the inning.

What do you tell the coaches in that case?

SamC

Guessing that this is the only modification, (and both books match) I would tell the coaches that we have a BOO. DP-Smith is out, and the third batter in the batting order would come to bat (since the second batter is on 1st base). Question to you Sam: Who made the last out in the previous inning? If B8 made the third out, then we have 2 outs (since we should have started the inning with an automatic out). But, if DEFO-Jones made the third out, then we have only 1 out (since nobody protested DEFO-Jones as illegal batter).

Mike??

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by SamNVa
Ok Mike,

Since you were the only one to answer, consider this slight modification. In the sixth inning, the second batter in the batting order leads off and walks. Now the defensive coach comes out claiming that Team A is BOO since according to his book, DP-Smith should have led off the inning.

What do you tell the coaches in that case?

SamC

Uh-oh! Serge and I may have a little difference here. If the coach makes the BOO claim prior to a pitch, legal or illegal to the next batter, DP-Smith is ruled out and the #2 batter of that inning is returned to the plate to bat over. Count starts clean.

[CecilOne]

First, the original problem:
"Neither the umpire nor either of the coaches realize that the automatic 3rd out should have been taken. " I always memorize the batters before and after the automatic out, so this does not happen,

Second, suggested results of tweaked case:
1) DP-Smith (B1) is out, B3 is up.
2) DP-Smith (B1) is out, B2 is up.
3) DP-Smith (B1) is out, B2 is up and B10 was out before B1 batted (shorthanded automatically).

Who thinks they could sell ANY ONE of the three on the field?
I think I could sell 1 or 2, not 3.

Who thinks they could sell NONE of the three on the field?

[SamNVa]

Hey Guys,

Let me add a little clarification to what I was thinking.

DEFO-Jones was supposed to bat for DP-Smith in the fifth inning which is a perfectly legal substitution. However when she came to the plate, nobody realized thaq the inning should have been over due to the automatic out in the 9th batting position. So effectively she was allowed to bat for the injured 9th batter. In my first scenario, in the next inning, the leadoff batter DP-Smith erroneously comes up to bat forgetting that DEFO-Jones batted for her in the fifth inning. In my second scenario, B2, the batter following DP-Smith, comes to the plate which would have been correct except for the mixup in the fifth inning.

So here's what I'm really looking for: Is DEFO-Jones doomed to "ride the pine" for the remainder of the game because she was erroneously allowed to bat in B9's spot, or is this a fixable problem, and who is due to leadoff the sixth inning?

SamC

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by SamNVa
Hey Guys,

Let me add a little clarification to what I was thinking.

DEFO-Jones was supposed to bat for DP-Smith in the fifth inning which is a perfectly legal substitution. However when she came to the plate, nobody realized thaq the inning should have been over due to the automatic out in the 9th batting position. So effectively she was allowed to bat for the injured 9th batter. In my first scenario, in the next inning, the leadoff batter DP-Smith erroneously comes up to bat forgetting that DEFO-Jones batted for her in the fifth inning. In my second scenario, B2, the batter following DP-Smith, comes to the plate which would have been correct except for the mixup in the fifth inning.

So here's what I'm really looking for: Is DEFO-Jones doomed to "ride the pine" for the remainder of the game because she was erroneously allowed to bat in B9's spot, or is this a fixable problem, and who is due to leadoff the sixth inning?

SamC

No way around this. If Jones doesn't report, the umpire can only take it for what it appears to be regardless of which inning it occured. It is what it is, the coach's responsibility

If you try to fix this, I want to place a bet with you for the next Super Bowl.....the day after.

Now, if you are alleging that Jones DID report at the end of the previous inning, the #2 batter is out and #3 is due up. Smith is now waiting to re-enter the game in the #1 slot.

Once a pitch was thrown to Jones in the previous inning, I don't think the umpire can take a step back and correct the previous situation. The #9 slot is just skipped, no penalty.

BTW, I do two things when shorthanded, tell the opponent you need to know when the vacant slot is due and know who the following batter is.

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

Uh-oh! Serge and I may have a little difference here. If the coach makes the BOO claim prior to a pitch, legal or illegal to the next batter, DP-Smith is ruled out and the #2 batter of that inning is returned to the plate to bat over. Count starts clean.

No difference. Just a brainfart on my part. Maybe if someone would have told me the scenario in Spanish, I might have understood it better. Sometimes, when I give coaches their time to voice their opinion, I look so attentive to them. But what I'm really doing is translating the play/scenario in my head in Spanish.

And yes, like Mike, I too let the opponents know when short-handed that they need to let me know when the "automatic" out is up. Funny thing is; I've never had to "memorize" the batters cause the opponents will ALWAYS yell at me..."Hey blue, their third out is due up now!"

And who said umpires are the only ones always looking for the outs.