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-   -   Runner hit by batted ball (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/89799-runner-hit-batted-ball.html)

bucblue Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:47am
Runner hit by batted ball
 
Ball hit to shortstop who is playing in, she boots it and ball hits runner, behind the shortstop and after she had made a play on ball. No other infielder was in a position to make a play on the ball. Field umpire called her out. I am a baseball umpire, and in this sit, we have nothing, play on. Is it different in softball? Fed rules.

By the way, after the game I visited with the plate umpire and asked for the interp. He said that in softball, whenever a runner is hit by a batted ball, she is out, but a softball umpire I work with said the rule is the same as baseball. Color me confused.

Skahtboi Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucblue (Post 830740)
Ball hit to shortstop who is playing in, she boots it and ball hits runner, behind the shortstop and after she had made a play on ball. No other infielder was in a position to make a play on the ball. Field umpire called her out. I am a baseball umpire, and in this sit, we have nothing, play on. Is it different in softball? Fed rules.

By the way, after the game I visited with the plate umpire and asked for the interp. He said that in softball, whenever a runner is hit by a batted ball, she is out, but a softball umpire I work with said the rule is the same as baseball. Color me confused.
The PU's interp that "anytime a runner is hit with a batted ball" is completely erroneous.

IRISHMAFIA Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucblue (Post 830740)
Ball hit to shortstop who is playing in, she boots it and ball hits runner, behind the shortstop and after she had made a play on ball. No other infielder was in a position to make a play on the ball. Field umpire called her out. I am a baseball umpire, and in this sit, we have nothing, play on. Is it different in softball? Fed rules.

By the way, after the game I visited with the plate umpire and asked for the interp. He said that in softball, whenever a runner is hit by a batted ball, she is out, but a softball umpire I work with said the rule is the same as baseball. Color me confused.
Speaking ASA

A runner who is struck with an untouched, fair batted ball is not out if that ball has passed a fielder, other than the pitcher and no other fielder has the opportunity to make an out. This would not be true if the runner, in the umpire's judgment, intentionally contacted the batted ball.

BretMan Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:41pm
Didn't sound to me like this was an untouched batted ball (ie: "...she boots it...after she had made a play on the ball..." )

Did F6 actually touch the ball and deflect it at the runner? In that case, you have a deflected batted ball which is covered by a different rule. If the runner was unavoidably hit then she's still not out. The differences with the rule Irish posted above would be: It doesn't matter if the runner was in front of or behind the fielder, and; The part about "another fielder having a play" doesn't apply.

MNBlue Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:54pm
NFHS 8-8-4 - A runner is not out:
Quote:
ART. 4 . . . A runner is hit with a fair, untouched batted ball that has passed an infielder, excluding the pitcher, and, in the judgment of the umpire, no other fielder had a chance to make an out.
NFHS 8-8-6 - A runner is not out:
Quote:
ART. 6 . . . A runner is hit with a fair batted ball after it touches, or is touched by, any fielder, including the pitcher, and the runner could not avoid contact with the ball.

bucblue Thu Mar 08, 2012 01:01pm
Thanks for the replies and rule references. No longer confused but now upset that two state registered high school officials are so ignorant of the rules, or just choose to lie to cover up their partner's mistake. Either way, it is disappointing.:mad:

rwest Thu Mar 08, 2012 01:31pm
Initial Play
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MNBlue (Post 830770)
NFHS 8-8-4 - A runner is not out:


NFHS 8-8-6 - A runner is not out:

The FED also has "initial play" on the ball. Meaning that if the ball is booted and the ball is within a step and a reach of the fielder, we still protect the fielder and intent is not required to get an out on the runner.

MNBlue Thu Mar 08, 2012 02:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwest (Post 830794)
The FED also has "initial play" on the ball. Meaning that if the ball is booted and the ball is within a step and a reach of the fielder, we still protect the fielder and intent is not required to get an out on the runner.
True statement.


But the rules I quoted are referring to a ball hitting the runner, not a runner interfering with the fielder.


That would be this one:


NFHS 8-6-10 - The runner is out:
Quote:
ART. 10 . . . The runner interferes:

a. with a fielder attempting to make the initial play on a fair batted ball.
b. with a fielder attempting to field a fly ball over foul territory.

c. with a fielder attempting to throw the ball.

d. intentionally with a fielder or thrown ball.

NOTE: Jumping, hurdling and leaping are all legal attempts to avoid a fielder only if the fielder is lying on the ground.


PENALTY: (Arts. 10 through 14) The ball is dead and the runner is out. Each other runner must return to the last base touched at the time of the interference. When a runner is called out for interference, the batter-runner is awarded first base and credited with a fielder's choice. If this interference, in the judgment of the umpire, is an obvious attempt to prevent a double play and occurs before the runner is put out, the immediate succeeding runner shall also be called out. If interference occurs by the runner on a foul fly ball, the runner is out and the ball is dead. A foul ball is called in this situation and the batter remains at bat unless it was a bunt attempt with two strikes on the batter (F.P) or it was the third strike (S.P); the batter is also out in these cases. (Art. 14) The runner is also ejected.

MD Longhorn Thu Mar 08, 2012 02:36pm
The rules for a batted ball striking a runner are not the same as baseball in all cases, but in THIS case, they are - your runner should not be out.

rwest Thu Mar 08, 2012 02:39pm
What about....
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MNBlue (Post 830820)
True statement.


But the rules I quoted are referring to a ball hitting the runner, not a runner interfering with the fielder.


That would be this one:


NFHS 8-6-10 - The runner is out:

Suppose the deflected ball makes contact with the runner and the runner is a step and a reach from the fielder?

RKBUmp Thu Mar 08, 2012 02:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucblue (Post 830775)
Thanks for the replies and rule references. No longer confused but now upset that two state registered high school officials are so ignorant of the rules, or just choose to lie to cover up their partner's mistake. Either way, it is disappointing.:mad:
I feel your pain, after the last 2 HS games Ive worked I also wonder how some of these guys are "certified" HS umpires.

As for the step and reach in FED, if the fielder deflects the ball into the path of the runner, and the runner could not avoid the ball, step and reach does not apply.

MNBlue Thu Mar 08, 2012 02:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwest (Post 830825)
Suppose the deflected ball makes contact with the runner and the runner is a step and a reach from the fielder?
It's covered by 8-8-6.

MD Longhorn Thu Mar 08, 2012 03:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwest (Post 830825)
Suppose the deflected ball makes contact with the runner and the runner is a step and a reach from the fielder?
Don't mix the rules. It is irrelevant if the ball makes contact with the runner while the runner is that close to the fielder. the other rules will tell you what to rule.

Tex Thu Mar 08, 2012 06:03pm
rwest, based on your question with an "initial play" within a step and a reach, you have an out for interference per rule.

MD Longhorn Thu Mar 08, 2012 06:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex (Post 830912)
rwest, based on your question with an "initial play" within a step and a reach, you have an out for interference per rule.
No. Maybe you should describe a situation to illustrate your meaning... but generally, what you said just now is false.


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