Safe or Out?
 

Look at this video. Is the baserunner safe or out? After I get some opinions on this, I'll post the call. I'm particularly interested in what you have to say about the shortstop's bobble of the ball at the end of the play. Thanks!

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I wouldn't call that a bobble. She never really lost control. I have an out here.

(And Blue on the spot appears to be calling it too early!! :) but I think he has an out too, as he's already winding up for the sell)

No argument the umpire was anticipating the call, not the play. Seeing what I can see from this angle, I may have ruled the runner safe.

The ball seemed to be begin moving out of the glove upon contact to the point when the SS reached to hold it in, the ball was actually on the back of her fingers and continuing out of the top of the glove where the SS eventually gained control after in snow-coned.

REMEMBER, I'm looking at a replay slower than real time. Other than being early, I'm not faulting the base umpire no matter which way the call goes.

OTOH,the SS pretty much deserved to lose this call by not properly applying a tag. Who the hell doesn't close the glove to grip the ball when tagging a runner?

ASA Tag: A legal tag is the act of a defensive player: B: Touching the runner or batter-runner with the ball while securely held in the hand or glove.

The ball is moving around in her glove and at the very end she actually has to grab it and put it back in her glove. You would consider this "secure" posession of the ball?

Agreed....One of the very last things in the video is the SS reaching to push the ball back into the glove after she comes up after the tag. This should be a clue that she didn't have the ball securely.

I'm not so sure that the BU is winding up for a sell out, however. It appears that he starts to point at the glove...perhaps to indicate that the ball was loose and the runner is SAFE!

Don't know, that right fist was pretty tight and ready to go, but we've all been there. I guess he can still recover ;):D

This play looked extremely ugly. The SS did not make the call easy for the BU. I would have called the Runner out for no other reason than the SS managed to keep the ball in the glove, but again I have to say the play was very ugly and that is why we are payed the big bucks to call these plays.

MTD, Sr.

To those wanting to call this safe... the ball moves inside the glove on almost every tag play. I don't see her losing control here.

I guess we are just not meant to agree today!
 

mbcrowder,

I guess we are just not going to be able to agree today! :) I'm calling her safe. And if the ball moves like this on every tag play, then I have a safe call on every tag play. There was way too much movement of the ball to suggest control. If she had closed the glove like Irish suggested you wouldn't have seen that type of movement. Most of the tag plays I see are executed better than this. And as someone else pointed out, she had to grab the ball at the end to prevent it from coming out. No control. She's safe.

:) Sometimes that happens!
You are right that it was executed poorly, and that she should have closed the glove - however, that is INDICATIVE of my point - no one is ruling safe on a similar play with a closed glove, even though the ball often moves this much on those plays as well ... you just don't see them. I completely confess that this one is close, and as one other said above, I don't think you can fault the umpire either way on this call.

At this point, I'm more curious as to how it was ruled on the field and what happened after.

Yes, and that glove is usually closed to retain the ball which demonstrates control of the ball. That is not the case here.

xtreamump
 

I have an out, I will explain. The position of the Umpire is perfect, however the Video has a different view than we as Umpires will have. The Umpire was blocked from the runner during the lack of control of the ball. I think that he will want to see the ball and make an OUT call.

The defender had control of the ball. The runner slides in and causes the defender to no longer control the ball. The runner reaches the base. Only after reaching the base does the defender gain control of the ball. Even then, it doesn't appear that she does. She has to got back to the glove again as the ball pops out. The ball has to be secured held at the time the tag is applied, not after.

Would love to have had that video go about :03 sec. longer.
He gave a point, another few seconds would have told us if the point was indicating that the BU saw a bobble, or had a good tag and an out.

Yes, but not this much movement
 

Sure the ball may move but not as much as it did on this play. If it moves that much in the glove and I see it, that's not an out.

Just a reminder before MountieSB lets us in on the actual call.

We are seeing this from a prime angle not available to the umpire on the field and in slow motion, another option not available to that umpire.

And even with that, we have different opinions about what is and what should be.

She was called out.
 

After the call, our head coach went out and asked if the umpire saw the SS bobbling the ball. The umpire said he did, but since she controlled the ball at the moment of the tag, the baserunner was out. We didn't like that explanation, but it was his call to make.

This is another angle which backs up his claim that he saw the bobble. It was a big game and the crew did a very good job, but (you know us coaches!) we would have liked the call to go the other way. :)

Thanks for all of your input. We're always trying to grow in our understanding of the rules and how the games are called. Appreciate it!

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Judgement Call
 

The umpire is correct in that if he believes control was established at the time of the tag the runner is out if the loss of control was due to a separate act. Think of a swipe tag where there is control on the tag and then on the way up the ball moves. This is an out. Now I don't agree that that is the case in this point, but we are seeing this in slow motion. As someone has on their tag line the worst thing to happen to officiating is instant replay. We can't slow the play down like we can with video. We are taught to replay the play in our minds, but even with that we can't slow it down. Also, I can't say that I would not have made the same call.

The second video offers another dimension which, IMO, makes it even clearer there was no control of the ball.

However, as noted, this is a judgment call and even though the umpire saw the "bobble" I doubt he saw it the same as others.

On another note, this angle also show me this umpire ended up too close to the play. That wouldn't necessarily hurt on this call, but I wouldn't want to be that close to the players, even if pointing at the ball, tag or spot of the play.

+1 ... move me to the "safe" side of the ledger now. But BU did not have these two views. (And agreed he's too close - I almost said that from the first video).

Doesn't NCAA like the umpire closer
 

Not saying this is an NCAA game but maybe he calls NCAA as well. Don't they preach being more on top of the play? By that I mean being closer on tag plays.

The infamous "fourth dimension" which really doesn't exist?

I have no problem with an umpire "stepping in" to see something which may be hidden, but when doing so, forget about using a "sell" mechanic. But this guy seemed to move even closer after seeing the play and determing his call.

I knew it was a matter of time when you would mention the distance on the umpire. To give some perspective on this play, this was a four umpire crew. The calling umpire does not work NCAA.

To question Irish Mike: given the different angles, wouldn't a "third-dimension" view show the bobble? He was "close" in the first video and still shielded by the runner's leg.
(Disclosure: I'm sort of playing devil's advocate here, while I think that ASA's "10-12" is a bit rigid (even with the presentation in 2011 in OKC) and while the NCAA did advocate "close", I got a feeling that philosophy might be changing from my recent NCAA camp).