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-   -   Running lane violation or game over? (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/89408-running-lane-violation-game-over.html)

umpire george Thu Feb 23, 2012 03:11pm

Running lane violation or game over?
 
Game tied, bottom of 7th inning.
R1 on 3rd. base. Dropped 3rd strike on batter.
Batter runner is clearly in fair territory outside of running lane on way to 1st base when F2 throws ball over right shoulder into right field.
Running lane violation or game over?
Would your call be any different if it was raining and ball could possibly be wet?

MD Longhorn Thu Feb 23, 2012 03:20pm

Whose right shoulder?

Was it a quality throw (could F3 have caught it ... and if she could have but didn't, why didn't she)?

Rain and/or wet ball are irrelevant.

umpire george Thu Feb 23, 2012 04:07pm

Right shoulder of the batter runner. She's not running backwards...
Judgement call on the umpire as to running lane violation, Right?

Steve M Thu Feb 23, 2012 04:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by umpire george (Post 827137)
Game tied, bottom of 7th inning.
R1 on 3rd. base. Dropped 3rd strike on batter.
Batter runner is clearly in fair territory outside of running lane on way to 1st base when F2 throws ball over right shoulder into right field.
Running lane violation or game over?
Would your call be any different if it was raining and ball could possibly be wet?

You've got some of what you need in order to have a running lane violation. Was this a quality throw? Did the BR interfere with the fielder receiving the throw at 1B?
Would the call be any different if raining & maybe a slick ball? No - since the rain was not bad enough for the game to have been stopped. Although those conditions do make it more likely that it was not a quality throw.

KJUmp Thu Feb 23, 2012 05:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by umpire george (Post 827137)
Game tied, bottom of 7th inning.
R1 on 3rd. base. Dropped 3rd strike on batter.
Batter runner is clearly in fair territory outside of running lane on way to 1st base when F2 throws ball over right shoulder into right field.
Running lane violation or game over?
Would your call be any different if it was raining and ball could possibly be wet?

Speaking NCAA...game over. 12.2.4.2
Other codes?

MD Longhorn Thu Feb 23, 2012 06:15pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by umpire george (Post 827153)
Right shoulder of the batter runner. She's not running backwards...
Judgement call on the umpire as to running lane violation, Right?

Kind of ... you didn't answer this:

Was it a quality throw (could F3 have caught it ... and if she could have but didn't, why didn't she)?

MD Longhorn Thu Feb 23, 2012 06:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJUmp (Post 827185)
Speaking NCAA...game over. 12.2.4.2
Other codes?

You don't have enough information yet.

umpire george Thu Feb 23, 2012 07:02pm

Yes, it was a "quality throw" in spite of the fact F3 had to miss the batter runner who was out of the running lane. Please give me definition of a quality throw. F3 would have normally caught it if batter runner was not in fair territory.

IRISHMAFIA Thu Feb 23, 2012 07:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbcrowder (Post 827206)
You don't have enough information yet.

This is true.

Had the runner reached the 3' lane yet?
Was the double base in use?
Was the throw from foul territory on the 1B side?
Did the runner actually interfere with a defender's ability to receive the throw at 1B?

BretMan Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by umpire george (Post 827221)
Please give me definition of a quality throw.

One that is directed to a fielder at, or near, first base such that there is a reasonable expectation that the throw is catchable and that it would have recorded an out.

A throw that sails over the fielder, out of her reach, would not be considered as a "quality throw".

x-tremeump Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:29pm

xtreamump
 
I have to assume double first base, & I have to assume drop third strike F-2 is making the throw from foul territory. Assuming all of that the BR is helping the defense. Game Over.

MrRabbit Fri Feb 24, 2012 01:26am

Quote:

Originally Posted by xtreamump (Post 827264)
I have to assume double first base, & I have to assume drop third strike F-2 is making the throw from foul territory. Assuming all of that the BR is helping the defense. Game Over.


As my old sergeant said if wish to live long enough to see tomorrow you will assume nothing. That goes double for umpiring.

But if you wish to use assume logic then bend over and spread them because you are about to get your assumed.

umpire george Fri Feb 24, 2012 08:22am

Quote:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 827223)
This is true.

Had the runner reached the 3' lane yet?
Was the double base in use?
Was the throw from foul territory on the 1B side?
Did the runner actually interfere with a defender's ability to receive the throw at 1B?

1. Yes, runner was at least 30 feet down baseline.
2. No, double 1st. base was not in use.
3. Throw came from foul territory on 3rd. base side.
4. Based on angle of throw and position of batter runner defender was, in my judgement, interefered with.

x-tremeump Fri Feb 24, 2012 08:53am

xtreamump
 
As my old sergeant said if wish to live long enough to see tomorrow you will assume nothing. That goes double for umpiring.

But if you wish to use assume logic then bend over and spread them because you are about to get your assumed.

All we needed was facts not war stories.

MD Longhorn Fri Feb 24, 2012 09:09am

Quote:

Originally Posted by umpire george (Post 827307)
1. Yes, runner was at least 30 feet down baseline.
2. No, double 1st. base was not in use.
3. Throw came from foul territory on 3rd. base side.
4. Based on angle of throw and position of batter runner defender was, in my judgement, interefered with.

Then you have interference. We were not there. Until you said where the throw was coming from, I think we were all having trouble seeing how a BR that far into fair territory could interfere with a quality throw. Now that we know where it was coming from, it makes a lot more sense. Assuming number 4 above AND a quality throw (F3 could reasonably be assumed to have made the catch had BR not been where he/she was), you have INT.


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