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-   -   Running lane violation or game over? (https://forum.officiating.com/softball/89408-running-lane-violation-game-over.html)

IRISHMAFIA Sat Feb 25, 2012 01:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRJ1960 (Post 827637)
So, you're saying that the accuracy or quality of a throw is irrelevant... if ANY throw is made the ump is required to call interference (running lane violation)?

asking... not arguing

Didn't say that.

CecilOne Sat Feb 25, 2012 05:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRJ1960 (Post 827637)
So, you're saying that the accuracy or quality of a throw is irrelevant... if ANY throw is made the ump is required to call interference (running lane violation)?

asking... not arguing

There has to be hindrance of the fielder on a throw which the fielder could catch and have a play.

EsqUmp Sat Feb 25, 2012 06:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 827678)
There has to be hindrance of the fielder on a throw which the fielder could catch and have a play.

If the defensive player alters her throw as a result of the runner being out of the lane and that complicates the ability of the defender on 1st base to catch the throw, that's interference also.

HugoTafurst Sat Feb 25, 2012 07:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by EsqUmp (Post 827692)
If the defensive player alters her throw as a result of the runner being out of the lane and that complicates the ability of the defender on 1st base to catch the throw, that's interference also.

:cool:I think that is the subject of endless debate...:cool:

The most common example is probably when F2 throws over the runner (who is outside the lane) and the throw is out of reach of the player covering 1st and the ball goes into right field.

Some will call that Running lane interference...... many will not.

Here is the exact wording of the NFHS rule (from 2011):

Quote:

She runs outside the three-foot (0.91m) lane and, in the judgment
of the umpire, interferes with the fielder taking the throw at first base (there must be a throw); however, the batter-runner may run outside the three-foot (0.91m) lane to avoid a fielder attempting to field a batted ball. A runner is considered outside the running lane if either foot is completely outside the lane and in contact with the ground.

BretMan Sat Feb 25, 2012 07:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by EsqUmp (Post 827692)
If the defensive player alters her throw as a result of the runner being out of the lane and that complicates the ability of the defender on 1st base to catch the throw, that's interference also.

Citation? Rule set?

The only "stick and ball" game I'm aware of that has that interpretation is high school baseball.

EsqUmp Sun Feb 26, 2012 09:15am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BretMan (Post 827695)
Citation? Rule set?

The only "stick and ball" game I'm aware of that has that interpretation is high school baseball.

The runner's positioning causes and altered throw, which affects the fielder taking the throw at 1st base. It's not as technically literal as many umpires make it out to be.

That would be like saying that when the catcher drills the BR 35 feet up the base line, BR didn't affect the fielder's ability to take the throw at 1st base. What affected the play was the fact that the catcher threw the ball into BR's back.

The only difference in logic might be how an umpire can interpret what the catcher is doing and why they are doing it (e.g., looping the ball over the runner). Well, that's pretty obvious. Most catchers attempt to throw hard, online throws. That's how you get runners out; not by chucking the ball 20 feet into the air on a rainbow and hoping it lands in the 1st baseman's glove.

BretMan Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:26am

Quote:

Originally Posted by EsqUmp (Post 827803)
The runner's positioning causes and (sic) altered throw, which affects the fielder taking the throw at 1st base. It's not as technically literal as many umpires make it out to be.

That would be like saying that when the catcher drills the BR 35 feet up the base line, BR didn't affect the fielder's ability to take the throw at 1st base. What affected the play was the fact that the catcher threw the ball into BR's back.

It goes right back to the concept of a "quality throw". Just because the batter-runner got hit, it doesn't mean that the throw was directed at the fielder taking it and reasonably catchable. If the B/R is 35 feet up the line, but the throw is angled across the line and away from the fielder (perhaps aimed at the B/R in an attempt to get a cheap out), rather that up the line (directed at a fielder at first base), then it wouldn't be a quality throw and it wouldn't be interference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EsqUmp (Post 827803)
The only difference in logic might be how an umpire can interpret what the catcher is doing and why they are doing it (e.g., looping the ball over the runner). Well, that's pretty obvious.

But your point isn't obvious. If F2 loops one over the BR and the fielder, such that it can't possibly be caught, are you saying that would be interference because the catcher "altered her throw"? Or, are you saying that it obviously isn't?

CecilOne Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:57am

We are not about sympathetic judges.
We are about literally objective umpires.

x-tremeump Sun Feb 26, 2012 07:10pm

xtreamump
 
Lets call this game over. If this play happens make the call. Now some of you bullies start a thread that we can learn something. I like this site, some of you guys are rough. 13 years & I have had a 3 foot lane violation once. (COME ON MAN)

BretMan Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by xtreamump (Post 827975)
Now some of you bullies start a thread that we can learn something.

Bullies?

My, but you must have a delicate constitution.

Seriously...who in this thread is being "bullied"? :confused:

x-tremeump Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:45pm

xtreamump
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BretMan (Post 828041)
Bullies?

My, but you must have a delicate constitution.

Seriously...who in this thread is being "bullied"? :confused:

I knew it would be you to respond. "PLAY BALL" If we don't agree with one of the three of you guys all you have to say is something about a double negative. Some Umpire's are on here to talk to Brother Umpire's not hear how bad we are at spelling. I am man enough to move on, there are 3 of you guys that will have something to say. I thought that I would get into this Forum and find some good Topix. Show me something.

BretMan Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by xtreamump (Post 828047)
I knew it would be you to respond. "PLAY BALL" If we don't agree with one of the three of you guys all you have to say is something about a double negative. Some Umpire's are on here to talk to Brother Umpire's not hear how bad we are at spelling. I am man enough to move on, there are 3 of you guys that will have something to say. I thought that I would get into this Forum and find some good Topix. Show me something.

Please, sir, could you point me to a thread where I have ever commented about your spelling or grammar? Any thread? Ever?

Or, for that matter, find one example where I have ever "bullied" or berated another poster?

You seem to be ticked off about...something? For the life of me I'm not sure what it is.

NCASAUmp Mon Feb 27, 2012 08:57am

If you think BretMan is a bully, you either haven't really been reading his posts, or you must have some serious sensitivity issues.

He is anything but.

MD Longhorn Mon Feb 27, 2012 09:41am

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRJ1960 (Post 827637)
So, you're saying that the accuracy or quality of a throw is irrelevant... if ANY throw is made the ump is required to call interference (running lane violation)?

asking... not arguing

Understand that you're not arguing and just asking. Check the rule - specifically the part that says, "quality throw".

MD Longhorn Mon Feb 27, 2012 09:41am

Quote:

Originally Posted by EsqUmp (Post 827692)
If the defensive player alters her throw as a result of the runner being out of the lane and that complicates the ability of the defender on 1st base to catch the throw, that's interference also.

Nope.


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