lower level games

[mikeref]

in lower level games,( freshman sophomore) has any one ever manufactured an out when things are out of control??? score is one sided..one team cannot throw the ball over the plate, can't field the most routine plays.....the half inning has taken 45 minutes with no end in sight..things are just going from bad to worse. the winning team is not trying to run up the score..its just that the other team is soooo bad they can not make an out. I called a girl out for leaving base early just to end the inning. Both coaches later thanked me!! The PU could not call anything strikes beacuse the pitches were no where near the plate. This is in the third inning and the score was 26-3 at the time. I am interested in hearing opinions concerning this and other situations where a similar scenario may have exhisted.

[greymule]

Last weekend, I did a 14u tournament that was actually won by a strong 12u team. In the first game of the weekend, the 12u team got way up, and with 2 outs in the bottom of the 5th, their 3B coach called to me, "Watch my runner." The girl trotted off the base well before the release so that I could call her out.

A couple of years ago, my partner directed the coach of a team that was way ahead to start his runner on 1B early for the same reason.

I once had a ridiculously mismatched school FP game that was out of control by more than 20 runs in the 3d inning, but the leading team didn't let up. When a girl tried to steal 3B on a throw back to the pitcher, the throw to 3B beat her but she slid under F5's pathetic attempt at a tag. I called an out anyway, and the coach had the nerve to cry about it.

As we all know, at the top levels of slow pitch, Team A can beat Team B by 20 runs in the morning and then lose to Team B by 20 runs in the afternoon. I've seen players on even the best teams get purposely doubled off at the end of a blowout on a hot day. Once, a team that was losing 38-23 in the seventh hit three blasts far over the fence for three over-the-home-run-limit outs.

[Duke]

Work a FED Var game alone a couple of years ago because my partner was a no show. Final score was visitors 28, home 0 in five innings. Thank God for the 12 run mercy rule. Towards the end of the game I called a girl out on a force at second where the second baseman was "in the area" of the bag when she received the ball. Not too many groans over that one. Another play at first where the girl was safe by 1/2 step. Nope, sorry you are out...
Visitor's coach had no problem with the call. As an ump you have to survive somehow.....

[Edited by Duke on Jun 7th, 2003 at 03:01 PM]

[CecilOne]

There is a huge difference between team initiated deliberate outs and umpire initiated ones, let alone umpire directed misplays and obvious wrong calls. That hurts the credibility and integrity of all of us, as it says we can make wrong calls deliberately, makes us part of the game and makes us look time-only concerned.
I guess many of us make sure we are using the full strike zone when the game is out of hand, plus reminding the winning coach that running it up is unsporting.

[kellerumps]

If a game is out of control as you suggest, WE dont manufacture outs per se, but if it's close and we can get away with it then they are out.

I will always remind the winning coach about sportsmanship if they appear to be running up the score...........

Like someone said above, in games like this you get thru it the best you can.

[Dakota]

I won't manufacture outs out of whole cloth, but in games like are described in this thread, I will give the benefit of the doubt to the helpless team.

Cecil, I understand you ethical point, which is why I will only use the "tie goes to the umpire" to call close plays in favor of the slaughteree, rather than call a runner out who is clearly safe.

But, having said that, I also don't condemn those who are a bit more proactive in this regard. Making those calls is probably in the best interests of that particular game and of the participants in it.

[WestMichBlue]

If you are talking FED ball, why are you allowing these games to go on? In Michigan we have mercy rules (15/3, 10/5) and I've had a few games called after three innings.

Even if your state has not adopted these game ending rules, Rule 4.2.3 provides that, by mutual agreement of opposing coaches and UIC, any remaining play maybe shortened at any time or the game terminated. You can even end it in less than three if one team is leading by a substantial margin.

WMB

[Skahtboi]

I will not manufacture an out. I will call the game as I am supposed, giving as much as I possibly can to the strike zone, and hoping like the hell the winning coach is smart enough to manufacture his own outs.

I did have a high school game this year where I bailed a coach out in a slaughter. He came over to me and told me that he didn't want to the players or family to know that he was conceding the game. I sent him back to the dugout, finished the next couple of batters, went over to the scorekeeper to "check her book," and called the game. I later told the winning coach that his opponent had forfeited the game.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Skahtboi
I will not manufacture an out. I will call the game as I am supposed, giving as much as I possibly can to the strike zone, and hoping like the hell the winning coach is smart enough to manufacture his own outs.

I did have a high school game this year where I bailed a coach out in a slaughter. He came over to me and told me that he didn't want to the players or family to know that he was conceding the game. I sent him back to the dugout, finished the next couple of batters, went over to the scorekeeper to "check her book," and called the game. I later told the winning coach that his opponent had forfeited the game.

I'm with Scott. I have had coaches give me, "watch her leave early on 2B" or "watch for the interference on a ground". I tell the coaches that maybe they should grab a runner or two coming around 3B for an out instead of dumping everything in the umpires' lap.

I had a 12U game a few years back where the coach started "forfeiting" outs and expected the umpire to be the fall guy. So, my partner and I went along with it, right up until that losing team got within four runs, then the "forfeiting" coach was irate with us for putting her team in that position.

Isn't worth the trouble. Call the game.

[bluezebra]

So, some of you are actually bragging about cheating. How wonderful.

Bob

[Rick Vietti]

I have run into lopsided games on several occasions both on the Fed side and in tournaments. Tournaments I tend to not worry so much because of time limits and the usual tighter run rules.

If I have pre-knowledge that one team will simply over power the other team, I remind the coach of sportsmanship and "If the game gets out of hand, please make sure that the other team is not embarrased." And I follow that up with a few suggestions about the possiblility of running base runners off base or bunting into outs or have the girls practice batting opposite handed.

In general the "Class Coaches" or the coaches who know the game will try one of these tactics to get through the game. The occasional "Classless Coach" (I had one in a recent tournament - up by 17 runs and stealing home) that will get the neighberhood call for an out or my favorite - Dr. K (Kervorkian) Call!!!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Rick Vietti
I have run into lopsided games on several occasions both on the Fed side and in tournaments. Tournaments I tend to not worry so much because of time limits and the usual tighter run rules.

If I have pre-knowledge that one team will simply over power the other team, I remind the coach of sportsmanship and "If the game gets out of hand, please make sure that the other team is not embarrased." And I follow that up with a few suggestions about the possiblility of running base runners off base or bunting into outs or have the girls practice batting opposite handed.

In general the "Class Coaches" or the coaches who know the game will try one of these tactics to get through the game. The occasional "Classless Coach" (I had one in a recent tournament - up by 17 runs and stealing home) that will get the neighberhood call for an out or my favorite - Dr. K (Kervorkian) Call!!!

You know what the problem is here? There is a reason that softball has different divisions and classes.

If a team plays up and actually tries to do the best they can, I think that is great. If a team is involved in a tournament just so their players can experience it, that is wrong.

Some of the reasons "national championships" have lost their glimmer regardless of the organization is because there are so many, it has just become another weekend of softball. When talking tournaments nowadays, you don't hear about the competition a team may be facing first, but the number of guaranteed games they will play and any possible exposure the players may receive.

I've had coaches tell me that they knew they didn't belong in this qualifier or that championship, but they just wanted their players to get a chance to experience the feeling.

Some people have failed to realize that tournament resources are not unlimited. There are only a certain number of umpires, TDs, asst. TDs. etc. available on any given weekend. Wasting those resources is not fair to those involved which also includes the teams who belong as opposed to those merely along for the ride.

And when they realize this and need to cut expenses, the first place they look is the officiating as it has been demonstrated this year with ASA SP national tournaments where the umpires have been cut by a third to save the host some money.

Sorry for the mini-rant, but it's about time people actually start checking how much water is in the well before offering it to the hoards who buy into the "field of dreams" mentality.