Had a 15U game tonight. After the visitors bat in the first, the home coach comes up to me and says "You don't call the pitches on the corners"? I say "If she hits the corner, I'll call it". Then he says, "She's hitting them, you're not calling them". I say, "That's enough coach". As he's walking away, about halfway down to the 3rd base coaches box, he turns and points at me and says, "You BETTER call them both ways". That's when I tossed him.

It's bad enough he's arguing balls/strikes, but arguing about pitches that haven't even been thrown yet?

My partner informs me later that his daughter was the pitcher.

"My partner informs me later that his (coach) daughter was the pitcher."

Imagine that; it's always the parent of a particular player that gives you the most grief.
You did good, running his butt right then. I'm sure it probably made for a better game, at least for you, if no one else.

With me, he never would have made it to the "BETTER call them both ways" part. The point put him in my sight and the "you" pulled the trigger.

Weak Dixie Rules
 

Mike,

As Dixie umpires, we are limited by a weak set of Dixie rules relating to conduct and sportsmanship. By rule, the only automatic ejection is for profanity or throwing equipment. Any other conduct or sportsmanship ejection must be preceded with a warning. The Dixie rulebook for boys is better written and clearly states the penalties for conduct and sportsmanship.

BTW, AB did you call at SW or EM last night?

abz, I did warn him.
And it was at EM.

AB, my post was for IRISHMAFIA (Mike Rowe) because he stated "With me, he never would have made it to the 'BETTER call them both ways' part. The point put him in my sight and the 'you' pulled the trigger."

I knew "enough" was your warning and the second comment from the coach was his ejection.

In all the other associations, they can eject if a coach argues balls and strikes.

IMHO, the ejection was justified and probably improved the game! Did he expect 6 inches on both sides of the plate?

If a coach says "You..." to me during a argument after s/he has been warned had better follow that up with something like "Are the best umpire I have ever seen.". :)

You did good......Hope the Coach enjoyed the view from the parking lot.

Gawd, I hate this phrase!

This is doing nothing but questioning my integrity as a sports official. He is implying that I am cheating for one team.

This phrase gets minimum a warning if I haven't received any other grief and maximum an ejection.

Good job dumping this guy!

Heh, oops, thought you were talking to me...

JF just called me and said I should have called him last night, I guess I should have, but he said he thought I might have been a little quick, but he supports me and won't 2nd guess what happened. I guess that's good. On the other hand, I'm scheduled to call at AUM tonight, the same team that had a coach tossed on Monday night, so he said he's probably going to move me.


If Monday would have not happened, the coach last night probably would have made it through the game, but Monday night I took WAY more crap than I should have, and I didn't want a repeat.

If any assigner is moving umpires around because they had a coach ejected and so did the upcoming team, he is irresponsible and undercutting the moved umpire.

Does everyone believe he is as tough as he says?

I'm not sure what happened on Monday, but yesterday's ejection was both warranted and timely. It almost sounds like your assignor is questioning your ability to approach every game as a new day.

The few times that I have dumped someone, when asked about the next assignment for them, I have always stated that I won't (and don't) look for trouble, but I refuse to walk on egg shells too. Never had any trouble.

-Kono

Well, I'm the one that ejected him Monday. The previous 2 years I've eject 2 coaches. This week I got 2.

Like I said - every game is a new day. Don't avoid the confrontation. Don't look for trouble, but don't walk on egg shells.

JMHO

-Kono

Oh yeah, I feel the same why. I would have no problem staying objective for the game, and I told the assigner that. He said he'd look at the schedule and get back with me, didn't say for sure that he was going to move me.

Coaches saying "call it both ways" means only one thing...
"call it MY way"

I know what I would do because it actually had this happen to me two years ago. It was the first inning of the back-end of an 8:30 PM double header. I made a call on a banger at 1B (safe). F3 *****ed at F6 for taking his time throwing the ball to 1B.

He then turned toward me, pointed and started, "And you...". It was unbelieveable how loud the moan from his own team was. This team (LA Rockers playing Vision Scene) had two player/umpires, there were no substitutes available and they knew I would dump him. He was gone, game was over and I didn't get one complaint. Even the scorekeeper (ejected player's wife) was ragging on him for being so stupid.

I had to ask one of them what the rest of his statement was because I didn't care at the time.

I guess I'm way too soft. Must be because I come from the old school, where umps let players and coaches say a lot as long as they didn't hurl personal insults. I've seen umps toss even <i>fans</i> for the old "call 'em both ways" remark, but to me, you're supposed to ignore the fans, except for obscenity.

All the FP leagues around here are real sticklers for sportsmanship and quickly get rid of coaches who don't set good examples. I guess we're very lucky in that regard.

"Call 'em both ways" from coaches or players doesn't bother me. Maybe it should. Depends on how they say it.

For some reason, coaches very seldom give me a direct argument. Their main tactic is to talk to somebody else so that I can hear:

"Looks like she's gotta throw it right down Broadway."

"I don't know where that one was."

"That pitch was right over. He's really squeezing us."

Only once would I have tossed a coach in FP, but my partner beat me to it. I've tossed only 2 players in SP. Both guys gave me no choice.

I've heard the call 'em both ways several times. What got me on this one was that it was after a warning that I'd heard enough, and that he was 45 feet away and said it loud enough for everyone to hear, and the fact that the other pitcher hadn't even thrown a pitch yet...


[Edited by AlabamaBlue on Jun 5th, 2003 at 02:40 PM]

You were absolutely justified in running the coach in that situation.Once a coach points and makes a demand like that, he/she is attacking the umpires integrity.I dont even issue a warning at that point,"just your done coach,sight and sound in 60 seconds or game is over." Dont ever let a coach attempt to show you up.I always treat them with respect and expect the same if they want to continue to coach their game. Jeff

This year, we were given yellow (warning) and red (ejection) cards like they use in soccer. We're supposed to show them to the offender, thereby reducing/eliminating the verbal warnings/rebuttals that get the heart rates going and the tensions rising so quickly.

I've asked a few colleagues if they've used their's yet but they've stayed with verbal warnings so far.

I've only given the one warning so far and it was verbal, mostly because I'm worried that most of the coaches probably don't even know we carry them. I'll wait until I see someone else use them. Imaging trying to discipline someone by showing them a yellow card and having them look back at you wondering what the heck you are doing.

Anyone else using the yellow/red card system?

I don't know. I've been umpiring since 1966 and I'll give them their say, but will not let them put on a sideshow for the players and fans. I love it when they tell me, "I wasn't talking to you", but it was loud enough for the entire other team and the fans pass the outfield fence to hear the conversation. I simply tell them that if we can hear you, you are talking to us (umpires).

Two more of my favorites: "You HAVE to give me a warning" and "I didn't curse you, so you can't throw me out!"

I feel like a 2nd grade teacher dealing with bunch of kids who just learned to put together two coherent sentences. The excuses and threats are the same things I heard from classmates in grade school. "He started it", "He said it to me first", "She's looking at me", "I'm going to call (enter name here)", etc. It's just unbelievable. Usually, I just laugh at them and that just upsets them more.

As far as the fans are concerned, they are not there. I have enough to do inside the fences without babysitting members of the general public. I will address a fan's presence only if it is directly affecting the game. Even then, I just tell the coaches the game is suspended until they get control of that fan.


I don't really eject that many players or coaches. I have one this year, one last year and three the year before that and I don't have second thoughts about any one of them.

This is my first year of umpiring. I'm waiting for that very first ejection. I could've had one two weeks ago for a coach that kept questioning pitches and why they weren't called "deep" or flat or high--just seemed to annoyingly question some pitches. (Thanks to another post for providing a clear view on the misconception of deep pitches. It helped.)

As for the "You BETTER call them both ways", my opinion is that if it embarrasses you and it questions your integrity, honesty, and impartiality, then that is grounds for ejection. I guess since I am a rookie, I have a thick skin. I can put up with a lot. It bothers me, though, that some people and coaches seem to not even bother to pick up a rule book of the game and think and read about what they are talking about before they open up their mouth.

Anyone remember what it was like to throw someone out for the first time? (Please don't think I'm implying anything about age.) I would like to know what it's like just in case. ;)

Got my first notch on the belt last night.

40+ H.S. games, most varsity, even state tournament - never a major hassle. Sure there have been some words and I had to speak sharply to one coach and one player. But really, a wonderful season.

So now I am doing men's FP. Bingo - one gone in the second game. Called 3rd strike, ball walked the inside edge of the plate. Ball deflected off F2's glove and bounced towards dugout. Young man at the plate is yelling about my call. I step away so I can see catcher, who finally grabs ball, see batter still at the plate, and fires strike to 1B. "Batter is out!" Emphatic hammer.

Now he becomes unglued. "How can you call that a strike? The catcher couldn't even catch it."

"Not my problem, he got it in time to get you out."

"That's a dumb a-- call." Now I am begining to get a bit upset. "You are out, go to the bench, I'm ready to play ball."

Now he changes the sentence structure. "You are a dumb a--!"

"And you, sir, are gone!"

Welcome to the land of AA's.

WMB

Very well-handled, WMB.

I like to ride my motorcycle to games.

The license plate is

SEZ U

Hey BigUmpJohn,
I remember my first ejection. I made it half way through my rookie year. I had one coach (10-u rec ball) who would ride me every game I had him. I was trying really hard to not eject anyone my first year (I didn't want to be known as having a quick fuse). I spoke to my UIC about this coach and told him what was going on. He said if it's bad enough, warn him; if he continues, toss him. The following week I had him again. I put up with the strike zone comments for an inning. I told the coach that I wasn't going to put up with it. The next inning, he started again so I tossed him. I can tell you the adrenaline was pumping as I was waiting for the confrontation. It never came. He left the field without saying a word. Funny part is, after the game he found me and said: "Took you long enough. I was wondering when you would get your fill." We both laughed and I felt like that day I had become a blue! I can say it felt good to get it out of the way. Good luck the rest of the season.

My first one was a no-brainer. 12U, I called a runner out on appeal for missing home, and the coach came out to argue, started cursing.

I don't know if it was my first ejection, but in my first year a player was ejected for an obscene gesture after being tagged out at 3rd. Several teammates yelled things like "What the %^&*", "You can't %(^%ing do that" and "#^$# you", so I tossed the whole team.

__________________________________________________ __

If this coach's team is on the short end of a run-away game and
he does not cuss, I am leaving him to suffer. Lot of coaches
just want out of a bad situtation. Toss him, and he feels he has
accomplished something. Close game and cussing, http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/bigwave.gifI got one less
coach.

glen
AFA, ASA, LL, NFHS, NSA, PONY, USSSA, & http://www.mansun-nl.com/smilies/mecry.gif USFA.

My first one was a no-brainer too. LL opening day, 3rd inning - I had to remove a girl for bat throwing (warned once, reminded her as she was coming to the plate, and she still clobbered F2 with the bat).

Coach wanted to protest - so I had teams make sure the books agreed and noted the protest. Manager walks behind me, picks up a rock and chucks it at the backstop in anger. Didn't see it, but his mistake was hitting the metal pole - that thing sang like a soprano. "Coach did you throw that?" "Yup." "Bye"

Second one was even more obvious - coach tells his team (and everyone else) that I have a vendetta against them. Told him that was enough, but the mouth kept flapping - all the way to the parking lot.

-Kono

None this year yet, but I thought I was gonna have one on the boys field. I finished a girls game and was standing between the fields BS'ing with some parents. Wound up telling a handful of kids that they couldn't swing bats in the bullpen behind the dugout (LL has a "no on deck rule"). Coach gets wind of this and reads me the riot act ("Go back to softball", "Don't tell my kids what to do", yadda, yadda, yadda).

The next day, the baseball coordinator calls and asks if I can do a game on Wednesday. I accept, and ask who's playing. Yup!! Coach wisely kept quiet.

As I stated before, I didn't go looking for trouble, but didn't walk on egg shells either.

-Kono

My first ejection
 

My first ejection was also a no brainer (12U). The coach came out to argue a call at the plate. He complained that the tag was high - YADA YADA YADA and I explained to him that his runner never made it to the plate showing him the slide mark. He turns around heading back to the dugout and kicks the fence causing all the bats to scatter. BINGO! Time to go home.

My first ejection was really quite humorous, and had nothing to do with me or my umpiring partner at all. I was working a charity tournament, I believe it was 12U, maybe 10U, and there were these two coaches from the same team, yes, the same friggin' team, who kept arguing with each other on how to manage the game. My partner and I found it humorous for a while, but then, while the team was taking the field, I noticed one coach throw a drink on the other coach. The second coach picked up a bat and was threatening the first coach in the dugout, when my partner and I intervened. We ran them both. Actually had to take time away from the field to escort them separately to the TD and their staff.

My 1st ejection ever, 26 years ago, was in a colt league game. Visiting pitcher really, really good, wish I had gotten his name to see how he did in the pros (catcher said that he'd been scouted). Home team catcher takes 3 called strikes for out 3. He apparently didn't like the calls because on 1st pitch in the top half we had a fastball a little high and inside that he dropped his glove on and let me take in the mask. Got up (it hit high just right and knocked me back) and tossed the catcher. I was so PO'd that when the coach came out to argue the ejection I met him half way and said "Coach, I just got intentionaly beaned in the head. Your catcher is gone, your pitcher was in on it and if you say one word he goes too." Coach believed me. I took more hits because the second string catcher wasn't that good but I'd rather have the accidental ones that I can anticipate than the intentional.

Wow. You guys see far more outrageous behavior than I do.

But nothing compaired to Ed aka Trinity.

It definitely seems like you guys see the STRANGEST and most UNUSUAL things ever. Why don't I get the really good stuff? ;)

CecilOne... THE WHOLE TEAM? Wow, thats cool!

You need to remember this type of stuff is less than 1% of what we see. These are the extreme exceptions.

Came reeeaaalllly close today. Batter out who stepped out of the box (actually in back of the plate, almost on the catcher's foot) to hit the ball. First base coach starts yelling, wants to know where, what box (no lines), all the usual. Then he starts on both teams getting the same courtesy. I say "coach, that's enough!" and he wanders away mumbling. This is only inning 1 of an all weekender, so I say no more. Two batters later, ny partner blows a call at first, calling safe for an out. The defense coach asks for time, gets half way to BU, who waves him off and walks to me. We talk, he changes the call and we're ready to start. Now the third base coach yells "Maybe we only need one umpire". I call time, give him the death stare followed by my favorite question and more stare. Then he's quiet and after the inning politely asks exactly what the batter out of the box did, nods and walks away. Then they are in the field and the first coach is sitting outside the fence half way between their dugout and the backstop. He starts on not "overruling" a call and I say "you are pushing your luck and you are supposed to be in the dugout". A woman in the stands pokes him in the back and he gets quiet. As it's a time limit game, I didn't take time to move him, but no more problem. After the game, a few parents asked if he made an enemy for the weekend.

ok, CecilOne, what is "your favorite question" that followed your death stare ??

Even though I am also a soccer official and even though I have often wished for a legalized pre-ejection, I agree with Elaine that this is not for softball. But being a soccer official, I won't say "UGH" or even ugh. I wonder if they would work in IFS, multilingual like FIFA is.

Well, it finally happened. I would have had my first ejected fast pitch player, but by partner beat me to it. It was really her call anyway, a flagrant crash at home and she was the plate umpire. Both players were injured. That of course turned into a debate with the manager and coaches that almost got them ejected. In the collision, both players were upright and yet coaches and teammates kept saying things like "you can't eject her for sliding". And then some nitwit in the offense team crowd said something about running them over and the defense coach thought it came from the offense dugout, so he came charging out and I had to head him off and get him back to his dugout. Fun game, except for that.

BTW, the coaches from yesterday's "first inning" apologized today, but I'm not cynical about it being at the beginning of their game which I was umpiring.

Would you have tossed him?
 

I would have responded: Coach, arguing balls and strikes is a violation of the rules. If you continue to violate the rules,I will take further action.

If the coach continues with the ball/strike issue I would eject the coach.

Michael

:DStrange, we usually consider the "Nort' Joisy" teams to be the outrageous ones. :D

I agree.. Me 20 years Fed.. zero ejections.

Boy, Oatmealqueen---you sure are laid back!

LOL

<b>Strange, we usually consider the "Nort' Joisy" teams to be the outrageous ones.</b>

I believe you, but we're actually in Central Jersey, where the accent is more like that in Philadelphia. ("Why" sounds like "woy"; "over there" sounds like "ehwver dair"—there are no diacritical marks to indicate the sound of our long "o"). Sehw woy did dem goys gehw ehwver dair? We're a world apart from Nort' Joisy. To people in Trenton, Newark might as well be on Jupiter.

It looks as if I spoke too soon about outrageous behavior. Last night, on the next field, a veteran umpire ejected a long-time coach for some kind of snide remark. Then the coach refused to leave the field and laid a string of obscenities on the ump. This was 12-and-under girls.

I've done that league for many years and had that coach many times with no problems. The league in fact is very strict about the behavior of players, coaches, and fans. Before last night, I never saw anyone come close to being ejected. It will be interesting to see what they do to the above-mentioned coach.

I assume you meant "Newk":D

How long do you want to stay here?

Okay - you can't have a conversation about New Joisy without the required question :D

No, that would be "Ne-erk", as opposed to New-ark, DE.

zero ejections
 

17 years for me, NFHS and ASA FP, two coaches, no players, but as I said there would have been one the other day. That's not counting the AA of course.

Year 35 for me, though the first 18 or so only had about 10 games a year as I was still playing. I've probably tossed 50 or so.

Steve M