Obstruction, Run-Down, Awards ???

[Bandit]

Question: Runner on first and third, batter hits ball to pitcher, pitcher fakes throw to hold runner, throws to first, first does not tag base but catches and throws to plate to get runer now going home...runner that was on third is now in rundown between third and home.....is obstructed going back to third ...and it is indicated by plate umpire...runner is thrown out at third by a tag applied by the shortstop now covering the base...indicated out by base umpire....shortstop has tagged the runner and now throws to second to try and catch the girl which had been on first at the start of the play...ball hits runner and goes into center field...runner advances to third...batter-runner advances to second.....play over.....home plate umpire calls time...advances runer which had been obstructed to home (scores the run) and puts the lead runner back on second and the batter-runner back to first.....this did not sound or look correct...any thoughts ???

[greymule]

runner is thrown out at third by a tag applied by the shortstop now covering the base

STOP!

At that point, the ball is dead, the runner who was obstructed while retreating to 3B is awarded 3B, and the other runners go to 2B and 1B.

If this was ASA, the umped erred by awarding the obstructed runner home. He should have placed her at 3B, as she was obstructed going back to 3B. I assume Fed is the same, but I might be wrong.

[Edited by greymule on May 30th, 2003 at 09:17 AM]

[Dakota]

I agree. The umpire should have loudly declared DEAD BALL the moment R1 was tagged out. All further play beyond that is irrelevant.

I also agree that the most likely base for R1 to be awarded would be 3rd, although it is a judgment by the umpire as to which base the runner would have achieved had there been no obstruction, it's have to be a bit unusual for that to be home in this situation.

ASA and Fed are the same here.

[Steve M]

Originally posted by greymule
runner is thrown out at third by a tag applied by the shortstop now covering the base

STOP!

At that point, the ball is dead, the runner who was obstructed while retreating to 3B is awarded 3B, and the other runners go to 2B and 1B.

If this was ASA, the umped erred by awarding the obstructed runner home. He should have placed her at 3B, as she was obstructed going back to 3B. I assume Fed is the same, but I might be wrong.

[Edited by greymule on May 30th, 2003 at 09:17 AM]

Fed was different a few years ago - 3, maybe - but changed their obstruction award to match ASA's.

Steve M

[bobbrix]

how was she obstructed in the squeeze play between 3rd and home ???

was runner interference a consideration ?

describe how she was obstructed, please

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by bobbrix

how was she obstructed in the squeeze play between 3rd and home ???

was runner interference a consideration ?

describe how she was obstructed, please

There was no mention of a squeeze play. It would be awfully obvious of R1 did interfere with a ball hit back to the pitcher,especially if the runner was far enough away F1 felt it necessary to fake a throw to hold that runner. Also, it really doesn't make any difference how she was obstructed....speaking ASA, of course.

[Bandit]

No squeeze play here. Run down...third baseperson had thrown ball to catcher, runner stopped progress to home turned to go back to third and ran into third baseperson who was not attemting to catch the ball as the shortstop was the next person to recive a throw at third base.

[Roger Greene]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Steve M

Originally posted by greymule

Fed was different a few years ago - 3, maybe - but changed their obstruction award to match ASA's.

Steve M

And if it is PONY, the runner is awarded home as Pony has a minimun award of the advance base if the R is obstructed in a rundown.

Roger Greene

[Bandit]

This happened in a high school varsity contest

[CecilOne]

Also, even with a good throw to 2nd, R2 gets 2nd even if she had not reached yet, because she can not be put out on a dead ball and the BR reached 1st safely. If the BR had been out at 1st and R2 had not reached 2nd at the time the ball became dead, R2 would be returned to 1st.

[whiskers_ump]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Roger Greene

Originally posted by Steve M

And if it is PONY, the runner is awarded home as Pony has a minimun award of the advance base if the R is obstructed in a rundown.

Roger Greene

NSA. A baserunner obstructed in a rundown shall be
awarded the lead base at the time of obstruction.
Rule 8 Sec.5 1. Exception:

glen
AFA, ASA, LL, NFHS, NSA, PONY, USSSA, and USFA

[JEL]

ASA POE 35, ...if the obstructed runner is put out prior to reaching the base they would have reached had there not been obstruction, a dead ball is called and the obstructed runner, and each other runner affected by the obstruction will be awarded the base(s) they would have reached, in the umpires judgement, had there not been obstruction... Runner was trying to go to third, should be awarded third, greymule got it right on.

[greymule]

I didn't know that in Pony a runner obstructed while retreating to 3B should be awarded home. I better get a Pony rulebook. Every year, our ASA association does Pony qualifiers, but we have assumed the rules are the same as ASA's. In fact, the people running the tourneys have told us as much, so they don't give us Pony rule books.

I'm glad that, at least in my own games, I haven't had that situation, because I would have made the wrong ruling.

[SamNVa]

Hey GM,

The Pony rule books are online. You can get a copy here: Pony Rules

SamC

[greymule]

Thanks, SamNVa. That's a big help.