I feel your pain.

[alabamabluezebra]

AB, I was calling a 12U game a few weeks ago and the batter gets hit in the hand. The PU never calls "foul ball" or "dead ball" and the runners are running, the fans and coaches are screaming. After the play ends, I run in and ask him "What do you have?". He says "I not sure. Are the hands a part of the bat?" I shook my head "No". We walk through the situation and put the runners back to the appropriate bases. Between innings, he asked me if I was sure that "the hands are not part of the bat"? It is truly an uphill battle when your own umpires don't know the rules.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by alabamabluezebra
AB, I was calling a 12U game a few weeks ago and the batter gets hit in the hand. The PU never calls "foul ball" or "dead ball" and the runners are running, the fans and coaches are screaming. After the play ends, I run in and ask him "What do you have?". He says "I not sure. Are the hands a part of the bat?" I shook my head "No". We walk through the situation and put the runners back to the appropriate bases. Between innings, he asked me if I was sure that "the hands are not part of the bat"? It is truly an uphill battle when your own umpires don't know the rules.

Should have walked him to the dugout and asked to see the bat with the hands attached.

[alabamabluezebra]

I asked him if the girl's hands were still attached to the bat when she ran to first. He gave me a funny look and said "Of course not". I said "Thus the hands are not a part of the bat, Right?". He quietly squeaked out "Ok, I understand no", but I suspect he still doesn't believe me.

[AlabamaBlue]

I had plenty last night. Worked with a guy I hadn't worked with before, but I'd work with him again any time. This is his first year in Dixie, but he's called NFHS and ASA for quite a few years.

I had 12U at American with AUM interlock. Partner was great last night, one set of coaches wasn't. I ejected 1, should have had all 3 of 'em.

Should have got the head coach after the first batter looked at strike 3 and he walks about 5 steps toward home from the 3rd base box and holds one hand about eye level and the other hand at ankle level and says something like "Is this going to be the strike zone all game" or something to that effect. Should have run him then but I just told him that was enough.

Should have got the other coach in the bottom of that inning after his pitcher walks the first batter on 3 in the dirt and the 4th belt high but so far outside that his lunging catcher can't get any leather on it. He asked for time and gathered his infielders around the pitcher and loudly says "They have to be perfect, he's giving to them but not us". Instead I broke the conference and told him not to try that crap again.

After that inning the 3rd coach tells me that these other 2 coaches ***** at every game.

The rest of the game went fine with only the usual bellyaching until the bottom of the last inning, visitors up 5-2, 2 outs, runners on 2nd and 3rd, 0-2 count on the batter. Next pitch is mid-thigh and a good 5-6 inches inside, ball 1. The 3rd coach screams COME ON BLUE JUST GIVE THEM THE GAME. I tossed him then, and he walked around behind the backstop saying at least now he could watch the game. I said only if you can see if from the parking lot. He said he didn't have to leave, I said he was right, but if he didn't in the next minute we were forfeiting the game.

The other 2 coaches are yelling at him to run, I wait till he's out of site. Next pitch, batter swings and misses.

I'm still kicking myself for not running the first 2 coaches earlier. I'm too much of a softy.

[CecilOne]

I get a lot of these coaches under control with a stare. For example, on Sunday a pitch was just above the knees and over the inside of the plate (RH batter). From the 1st base dugout, he says to the batter "That wasn't a strike, ... ". I just removed my mask and stood there staring at him until he turned away. No more comments like that were heard. A very high-level and very respected soccer official and assessor teaches that we all need to develop a "death stare" and it seems to work.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by CecilOne
we all need to develop a "death stare" and it seems to work.

I agree, Cecil. "The Look" is one of the most effective tools for game management. And, it doesn't even need to be obvious to anyone other than you and the "target" that they are getting "The Look." It is very effective.

[chris s]

Originally posted by alabamabluezebra
I asked him if the girl's hands were still attached to the bat when she ran to first. He gave me a funny look and said "Of course not". I said "Thus the hands are not a part of the bat, Right?". He quietly squeaked out "Ok, I understand no", but I suspect he still doesn't believe me.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~
Y agotta tell him to visit Big 5 and SEE all those hands attached to the 250 dollar bats, GEEEZZZZZ.......

[chris s]

Originally posted by AlabamaBlue
I had plenty last night. Worked with a guy I hadn't worked with before, but I'd work with him again any time. This is his first year in Dixie, but he's called NFHS and ASA for quite a few years.

I had 12U at American with AUM interlock. Partner was great last night, one set of coaches wasn't. I ejected 1, should have had all 3 of 'em.

Should have got the head coach after the first batter looked at strike 3 and he walks about 5 steps toward home from the 3rd base box and holds one hand about eye level and the other hand at ankle level and says something like "Is this going to be the strike zone all game" or something to that effect. Should have run him then but I just told him that was enough.

Should have got the other coach in the bottom of that inning after his pitcher walks the first batter on 3 in the dirt and the 4th belt high but so far outside that his lunging catcher can't get any leather on it. He asked for time and gathered his infielders around the pitcher and loudly says "They have to be perfect, he's giving to them but not us". Instead I broke the conference and told him not to try that crap again.

After that inning the 3rd coach tells me that these other 2 coaches ***** at every game.

The rest of the game went fine with only the usual bellyaching until the bottom of the last inning, visitors up 5-2, 2 outs, runners on 2nd and 3rd, 0-2 count on the batter. Next pitch is mid-thigh and a good 5-6 inches inside, ball 1. The 3rd coach screams COME ON BLUE JUST GIVE THEM THE GAME. I tossed him then, and he walked around behind the backstop saying at least now he could watch the game. I said only if you can see if from the parking lot. He said he didn't have to leave, I said he was right, but if he didn't in the next minute we were forfeiting the game.

The other 2 coaches are yelling at him to run, I wait till he's out of site. Next pitch, batter swings and misses.

I'm still kicking myself for not running the first 2 coaches earlier. I'm too much of a softy.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~
After I eject an adult, it is "Get in your car and LEAVE"

[bobbrix]

i had a rare opportunity last night, along the same line ... girls 14 & 15 fast pitch


i had just swept home plate and happened to rake the ground around it with my foot, cleaning up some ball marks and some other holes

sure enough, next pitch we have the runner stealing from third and sliding in at home ..... catcher tosses to pitcher, pitcher tags runner who has now stopped completely and is laying on her back

runner definitely beat the tag, but i wait a few seconds for the dust to clear and sure enough her heel is like an inch away from the plate, so she never reached it .... better still she’s dug her heel deep into the ground and left quite an impression in the ground

i call her out and i hear “ come on, blue, you let them talk you into that one “ from a coach on their bench ... i turn to see who it is harrassing me ... then, from their 3rd base coach, i hear “ yea blue, no way was she out on that one, what are you listening to them for ?? “

so, i call time and give the bench coach a warning for questioning my integrity

then, because i’m completely disappointed with these guys, i point at the 3rd base coach and say “You, come here!”.

“ummmm, I don’t want to come over there, i’ll accept the call ”, he says, probably wishing he hadn’t piped up

so, i press on “ no, you come here because i want to show you something “

he jogs over and i show him her footprint and ask him “now, do you still think she made it ??”

“well, sir, from here i can now see that she did not make it .... but from 3rd base it sure looked like she did !!! “

oh boy

anyway, not sure if i went too far but i was pretty pumped by that time

[CecilOne]

It's not too far as long as you have and want to present evidence on every future close call.

[CecilOne]

Originally posted by alabamabluezebra
AB, I was calling a 12U game a few weeks ago and the batter gets hit in the hand. The PU never calls "foul ball" or "dead ball" and the runners are running, the fans and coaches are screaming. ... snip ...

I was taught somewhere along the line that if you are not sure whether the pitch hit the bat or hand first, treat it as hitting the bat. Agree or disagree?

[SamNVa]

Originally posted by CecilOne
I was taught somewhere along the line that if you are not sure whether the pitch hit the bat or hand first, treat it as hitting the bat. Agree or disagree?

I totally disagree. Hands stick up at least 1/2" above the bat handle, so if I'm not sure which got hit first, I always assume it hit the hands first. Besides, it's better to award 1st to a player who is standing there shaking their hand than it is to call a foul ball on them (assuming they weren't swinging at the ball of course).

SamC

[Andy]

Originally posted by CecilOne

I was taught somewhere along the line that if you are not sure whether the pitch hit the bat or hand first, treat it as hitting the bat. Agree or disagree?

I think that I would agree with this.

I compare it to the philosophy that "you can't guess an out".

You have to see it to call it.

[CecilOne]

Originally posted by bobbrix
... snip ... questioning my integrity
... snip ...

Nothing makes a coach or player disappear faster!

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Originally posted by SamNVa

I totally disagree. Hands stick up at least 1/2" above the bat handle, so if I'm not sure which got hit first, I always assume it hit the hands first. Besides, it's better to award 1st to a player who is standing there shaking their hand than it is to call a foul ball on them (assuming they weren't swinging at the ball of course).

SamC

Sam has got this right. If the pitch is so poor that the batter is ducking to get out of the way... if there is opportunity to say the pitch hit the hands, do so and award 1st.

However if the pitch is close to the plate and the batter is swinging, call the appropriate deadball for hit batter, call the strike, and if it is the third strike, call the batter out (Yes, even if it hit the hands. If this would be the third strike, the batter is out.)

A foul ball is one that hits the bat first and then hits some other body part away from the hands. The only way a pitched ball can ricochet from the bat, move parallel to the bat, and then hit the hands is for the bat to be parallel to the flight of the ball.

If the batter is swinging, it is a strike. And if it hits the hands it is also a dead ball. If it hits the hands during a swing, it cannot be a foul ball.