ASA rules, (and any other which apply), girls fast pitch. Had a situation where at half inning, as defense was taking field, F5 takes mound and throws 3 pitches, then walks over to 3rd base, and original pitcher re-takes mound. This was done probably because offense had all girls out on field, (on deck) timing warm-ups. Offense posed this question, If F3 throws warm-up, does she have to throw at least one pitch to a batter? Questions are, 1. Was defense action illegal? I cant find a rule which applies. 2. Was offense action illegal? I found ruling which does not allow multiple on deck batters during half inning, is this enforced? I have never seen it but have seen the warm-ups by all batters. 3. I allowed play as stated above, did I blow it? I know both coaches were playing the mind game with each other, it did not seem to be detremental to the game, but what is proper action here?

No. Anyone can take the warm-ups, but they are still limited to 5 (FP) or one minute regardless of who throws them.

1. No
2. No. This period was during a suspension of play and there are no restrictions on anyone during this period as long as they do not delay the start of the inning.
3. There was nothing for you to do other then monitor the number of warm-ups thrown by any player from the team taking up their defensive positions.

The rule is ASA 4-6C.

In JO play, I do not allow more than the first batter due up to be standing around out of the dugout during warmups. I rely on rule 5-12.

No. Only thing is I would have chased the line up of batters back into the dugout during warmups.

Just one question, Tom. Do you allow a coach to talk to their pitcher, or any other defensive player, during the warm-up period?

Mike, That one I know (I think). I believe that to be a chargeable conference, and I don't allow it.

Yes ... rules allows the coach to talk with his players. Rules are silent on a line up of the first 4 batters due up timing the pitches. Most fields don't have a lot of room between the dugout and the foul lines, so having all those batters with all those swinging bats in an area where defensive players are tossing balls around is not "justified by the umpire" (at least not this umpire). I couldn't care less about the teams playing "head games" unless things start to take a nasty turn - it has to do more with safety.

Actually, it would not be a charged conference because it is between half innings. Just don't let the coach delay the start of the inning.

Uh-oh, did I blow another call? If a coach is at the mound during the half inning, this is not a visit? Ive been led to believe it is (9-10 yr old baseball here) I wouldnt mind allowing it, if it doesnt interfere any other way.

There could be a local rule and especially if is non-SOFTball, but who in their right mind would make a rule against extra coaching for 9-10 year olds.

JEL,

SOFTBALL! SOFTBALL! SOFTBALL!

Just keep repeating that when posting on this board. Baseball and softball are different games played under different philosophies and different rules.

However, I think you get the point I was trying to make.

You need to remember, I'm debating the rules in general. Different fields and safety concerns may certainly dictate other action.

Yup, I got your point.

Yep, I get your point also.
This has been in SOFT, and BASE ball. No local ruling on this, just learned from my obvservation of the "Old Timers". I dont mind it, but if it is illegal, I wanted to stop it before another coach starts to gripe. Thanks for all responses. PS, I'll try and get the right boards next time, eyesight not to good you know!

[Edited by JEL on May 24th, 2003 at 01:29 PM]

JEL,

Some other thoughts on charged conferences (ASA)...

It is not a charged conference if the coach enters the field to talk with his players during either an official's time out (confer with partner, for example), or a time out called at the request of the other team, so long as the coach does not delay play (i.e. he has left the field by the time play is ready to resume).

It is not a charged conference if the coach informs the umpire prior to entering the field (crossing the foul line) that he will be replacing the pitcher (and he does replace the pitcher).

But, you probably knew that! ;)

JEL,

Please don't take my posts the wrong way. I am glad you are here and asking questions. However, the games are different. Many of the rules are similar, but some are handled in a totally opposite fashion.

It can be difficult to have an intelligent discussion when discussing two different sets of rules. And it's not just baseball v softball, it is often one sanctioning body v another. If you read through the board, you will often see the poster qualify the thread by noting the association rules under which the game in question was played.

BTW, if you are relying solely on OJT through emulation of the "old timers", I would suggest you find some serious training when possible. While veterans are a valuable source of knowledge, you may end up with some old material and myths which could get you in trouble down the road. As a UIC, I experience more problems with beliefs of some veterans' beliefs than I do the rookies.

Welcome to the board

OK, all you other veterans stop rubbing your toes. :D

Mike, Again thanks for replies. This thread started as an ASA girls fastpitch question, and the answers from the "Old Timers" vary slightly as I presumed they would. The baseball was added as an extra, because this is where I have encountered coaches on the mound during half innings. I have not been allowing it mainly because we have 90 minutes to play 6 innings, this can slow things up. If the coach has not done his job in practice sessions, he aint gonna get it done between innings! I think application on these points will help me in both ASA, and Dixie. Yes there are differences, but there are generalities which I can apply to both. RE my training, this forum is great, as well as clinics, and on the job training. I have coached for years, and started thi season calling, it aint as easy as it looks! I am drawing from EVERY avenue available and take it from there. I too have seen some senior officials call in a way which I hope never to do. My aim is learn from all, get it right, be fair and consistant, and do better next game than the last. I judge my performance on my performance only, and never try mimic another. BTW 4-6-C, second sentence, is as clear as mud, can you translate?

One of my all time favorite ASA-isms! http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/derr.gifIf I put a sentence like that in my 8th grade essay, my English teacher would flunk me on the spot!

Pardon me while I have a little fun before answering your question...http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/smileynose.gif

The sentence reads <font color=blue>The pitcher is not required to pitch until the first batter faced completes their turn at bat, or the side has been retired."</font>

This means that the pitcher does not have to pitch until after the side has been retired! How the side gets retired is a mystery! http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/cheezysmile.gif

OK, seriously, what they meant to say was, <i>"A substitute brought in to pitch may be replaced before the first batter completes their turn at bat and/or before the side has been retired."</i>

Thanks Tom, That one was confusing, and that clarifies my original question. I suppose a coach could sub a couple of times to the same batter as a delay?

Hell, that's just as bad as the original. I was just going to say that there is no restrictions as to when a pitcher may be removed from that position.

Yes, and a coach did just that to run out the clock at an ASA Nationals a few years ago. Since it seems the tactic was obviously to delay the game, I don't know why a forfeit wasn't called (or at least the coach warned to cut it out).

Yours is much simpler... But while a bit wordy, mine at least makes sense. :D ASA's original is only understandable if you already know what it means! :)

Actually, if you read it as a rule out of OBR, it might be more understandable. Remember, rules are written for coaches :)