Not sure if I see that in the text of 2-3-D... Doesn't it actually state?
I have never seen a rectangle drawn to define the catcher's box. The most I have ever seen was three lines, left, right and back.

And while this sounds self-contradicting, it essentially means that IF there was a frontal boundary, it is to be ignored.; which translates to its non-existence, at least as an enforceable boundary.


The only reference to for F2 being too far forward which appears in multiple places in the Rules, RS and Umpire's Manual all say the same thing
Here is where it gets interesting (at least for me) because I do not know the answer, and I enjoy these hypothetical, theoretical, TWP discussions. :D

Consider:

F2 is the only defensive player who is not required to be in fair territory.
But, is F2 required to be in foul territory?
Theoretically and TWP, with B is at the extreme fwd position in the batter's box it is possible for F2 to take a position in the opposite batter's box and be positioned in fair territory. Clearly at the risk of committing CO, or getting killed, but physically possible.

With the above references to CO caused by F2 being on, over or in front of HP, could it be that the enforceable frontal boundary of the CB be the Foul Lines?

I realize that this is "out there", but the board has been slow and we haven't had much trolling action lately. So humor me.

I can think of a couple of illegal actions that does not require the batter to be in the batter's box for me to call IP:
> Foreign substance
> Too many warm-ups
> F2 not returning ball to F1 with no runners on base

But not sure if i would bang:
> Double touch
> Taking plate with both hands together
With B out of BB, wouldn't we have a hand up holding up F1?

Now add "and 10' long" to that and you will have the complete 2-3-D. The catchers box in fast pitch is 8.5' X 10'.

I will concede this point but that doesn't change the enforcement of keeping the catcher behind the back lines of the batter's box. It may be a boundary, but it is an unenforceable boundary since there is no penalty associated with it, and that is explicitly allowed.

Turn the page

Bob Seger

And please note the word.. may. My original response was to the simple question "can" the illegal pitch be called with the batter out of the box.
With the further descriptions of situations, I can envision situations where IP WOULD NOT be called.
But those require further descriptive information.

I think too many warmups and F2 not returning the ball to F1 are simply a ball called on the batter.

I've seen pitchers throw all kinds of weird ways during their 5 warmups [FP] that definitely would be IPs if we're in live ball situations. Doesn't matter in warmups.

NFHS:
I don't think you can can call an IP for too many warm-up pitches.
Yes there is a penalty of a ball awarded to the batter, but it is not an illegal pitch (and no runners advance).
:)

Yes, I mis-stated.

Well, that is a point of contention with some. ASA 6FP.1.A specifically state that when taking the pitching position in contact with the PP, the pitcher must have their hands separated and must have the ball in either the glove or the pitcher hand.

Nothing about the position of the batter. Some believe this cannot be called until the pitcher actually makes a motion to pitch. However, there is no such provision in any of the rules, just that the pitcher cannot take the PP with her hands together.

The batter does not have to be in the BB for the pitcher to take the PP or take a signal or anything else as long as she doesn't start her motion to pitch.

Not necessarily, do you always hold your hand up when there isn't any obvious action to pitch? However, even if it is, it does not preempt the pitcher's action to prepare for the pitch, it just mean she cannot pitch.

For the sake of conversation:rolleyes:

On the "double touch"...

I'm not sure that would be an Illegal Pitch either, because........

As soon as she seperated her hands the first time (with the batter out of the box), you would have a Quick-pitch which is a dead ball and all subsequent action is cancelled - so the second touch didn't happen! :D

10 FEET!?!?! Really? Ten Feet front to back? Yeah ... I don't think so.

Yes, but what about the pitcher who takes her position on the plate with hands together, waits for the batter, takes her signal, and then separates. I HAVE seen this - and have had a partner IP it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne
Rule books define the catcher's box as an 8.5 by 10 rectangle.

OK, college is only 7 feet, others are 10. The point was not the size, but that what matters is that it is a rectangle, not an irregular polygon.
To be a rectangle, all lines including the front line have to be straight lines from corner to corner.