Preventive Umpiring?

[WestMichiganBlue]

FED Varsity. I'm inside, taking a runner into 2B. She slides in safely; end up sitting kinda cross-legged on the base. Slowly she untangles and stands up, looking at me - but doesn't say anything. F6 is standing near-by with ball in glove.

Suddenly I hear partner call "TIME." About the same time F6 decides to throw ball to pitcher, and throws it all the way to the backstop. Coach says "don't go, he already called time." I turn and look at partner, who is standing a little up-line towards 3B, just staring at us.

Between innings he motioned me over and said "you gotta call time on that." "Why, she didn't ask for time!" "Doesn't matter" he said. "If she gets tagged out we'll have a hellava uproar. That's just good preventive umpiring." "Sounds like slow pitch to me" I responded as I headed towards 1B.

What say you?

WMB

[chris s]

Originally posted by WestMichiganBlue
FED Varsity. I'm inside, taking a runner into 2B. She slides in safely; end up sitting kinda cross-legged on the base. Slowly she untangles and stands up, looking at me - but doesn't say anything. F6 is standing near-by with ball in glove.

Suddenly I hear partner call "TIME." About the same time F6 decides to throw ball to pitcher, and throws it all the way to the backstop. Coach says "don't go, he already called time." I turn and look at partner, who is standing a little up-line towards 3B, just staring at us.

Between innings he motioned me over and said "you gotta call time on that." "Why, she didn't ask for time!" "Doesn't matter" he said. "If she gets tagged out we'll have a hellava uproar. That's just good preventive umpiring." "Sounds like slow pitch to me" I responded as I headed towards 1B.

What say you?

WMB

You got hotball and pards a smitty! Keep it hot. Example, R1 ball is hit to F9. R1 is going into bag 3 uncontested. F9 throws to cutoff girl. Cutoff girl now calls time, to throw ball back to F1. I don't think so. Remember, Time is awarded by the ump, not the players actions..., nor ythe coaches, tell em to keep it hot......

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by WestMichiganBlue
FED Varsity. I'm inside, taking a runner into 2B. She slides in safely; end up sitting kinda cross-legged on the base. Slowly she untangles and stands up, looking at me - but doesn't say anything. F6 is standing near-by with ball in glove.

Suddenly I hear partner call "TIME." About the same time F6 decides to throw ball to pitcher, and throws it all the way to the backstop. Coach says "don't go, he already called time." I turn and look at partner, who is standing a little up-line towards 3B, just staring at us.

Between innings he motioned me over and said "you gotta call time on that." "Why, she didn't ask for time!" "Doesn't matter" he said. "If she gets tagged out we'll have a hellava uproar. That's just good preventive umpiring." "Sounds like slow pitch to me" I responded as I headed towards 1B.

What say you?

WMB

If not requested, I wouldn't call time unless it was obvious that the player may have difficulties getting untangled. In many cases like this, you often have a coach requesting time or telling the runner to "call" time.

If she is going to get up on her own without a request, let it stay live.

Personally, though, I like the fact that in SP I can kill the ball and move to my position whether on the bases or the plate. It allows you to get a little breather, but then again, us SP umpires run around much more than you FP guys

[mick]

Originally posted by WestMichiganBlue
....Between innings he motioned me over and said "you gotta call time on that." "Why, she didn't ask for time!" "Doesn't matter" he said. "If she gets tagged out we'll have a hellava uproar. That's just good preventive umpiring." "Sounds like slow pitch to me" I responded as I headed towards 1B.

What say you?

WMB

That works.

How about this sitch?

Runner sitting on the base. F6 standing with the ball.
Runner requests 'Time' and before you call, "Time", she gets up (off the bag) and is tagged.

Do you grant time upon your recognition of the request?

mick

[WestMichiganBlue]

If there are no other runners, I will call time as soon as she requests it. Other runners, then I've got to take a peek to ensure that everyone has settled.

Regardless of my timing of the call, if the runner gets off the base and is tagged, then she is dead. And a lesson can be taught - umpires call time, not players or coaches. Players are liable for their own actions prior to time out.

Reminds me of my pet peeve - coaches calling "Time" after ball four and are halfway to the pitcher when I see them. If a pitcher is struggling, I will anticipate this happening and will be watching to head it off. But every once in awhile I get blindsided, especially by a coach coming from 3B bench. Then it's "Get off the field, Coach. Ball is still live!"

WMB

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Originally posted by WestMichiganBlue
F6 is standing near-by with ball in glove.

"If she gets tagged out we'll have a hellava uproar. That's just good preventive umpiring." "Sounds like slow pitch to me" I responded as I headed towards 1B.

What say you?

WMB

I say your partner might have been right and you were probably right too. There is some middle ground.

It is a common courtesy to give a slider time to brush themselves off. As you well know, TIME should not be granted until the play is finished. It is not often that the shortstop can't throw the ball to the pitcher without hitting the backstop. After a player has slid into a base, I quite often grant time, whether asked for or not, and then kick off the dirt from the top of the base, turn and walk away. It doesn't happen everytime.

If you have turned your back and are now leaving for your next appropriate position... you don't know what is going on behind you. F6 yells, "I tagged her. She was off the base and I tagged her. She's out!" What will you do now?

You turn around; the runner is on the base; F6 is holding his/her glove with the ball on the runner still yelling that she is out. (and perhaps this is why you didn't call TIME???)

If the ball and the runner are in close proximity, the play is not over. You have either got to stand there and watch the play or call time, turn your back, and walk away.

I do a similar thing for overthrows at 1st. Runner turns to the outside and is not making any attempt to advance. I call time and walk away while F3 scrambles for the ball. I remove any opportunity for F3 to try to convince me that the runner's accomplishment of reaching 1st or that F3's fielding error should be overturned now with a tag. The play is done; I'm gone and getting ready for the next pitch.

I doubt the slow pitch comment helped cultivate a stronger relationship with your partner.

[Andy]

Originally posted by WestMichiganBlue
"Sounds like slow pitch to me"

Me too!

I try to keep the ball live as much as possible in a FP game.

[bluezebra]

With no other action, I call time. It takes less time to kill play, than to watch the fielder hold the ball on the runner while the runner hugs the base. It's a courtesy, not a time waster.

In FP, I NEVER gave time to allow a fielder return the ball to the pitcher.

Bob

[mick]

Originally posted by bluezebra


In FP, I NEVER gave time to allow a fielder return the ball to the pitcher.

Bob

Bob,
A coupla times, when asked, I have responded with , "Why?"
You can get some dumb-founded looks that way.
mick

[kellerumps]

I am a huge believer in Preventitive Officiating. Read my signature line about problems.

Will I call time in that situation.....Not as a general rule of thumb......But Yes I will.

It all depends on the situation.

As for the slow-pitch remark....Remember you are a team out there. If a good coach senses dissention in the officials crew they will try to exploit it to their advantage. We are faced with enough problems between the lines, don't create more.

Also, with the exception of my wife , I can say "I'm not working with that person again.".

[Skahtboi]

If you have turned your back and are now leaving for your next appropriate position... you don't know what is going on behind you. F6 yells, "I tagged her. She was off the base and I tagged her. She's out!" What will you do now?

You turn around; the runner is on the base; F6 is holding his/her glove with the ball on the runner still yelling that she is out. (and perhaps this is why you didn't call TIME???)

If the ball and the runner are in close proximity, the play is not over. You have either got to stand there and watch the play or call time, turn your back, and walk away.

That is why, when working the two man system, more and more the clinics are teaching you, in FP, for one umpire to always be watching the infield. Never, ever should both umpires turn their backs on a potential play. The way the mechanic works is simple. When all play has ceased, and the ball has been returned to the pitcher in the circle, the PU releases the BU to take his/her position in the field. When the BU has reached said position and is watching the infield, they release the PU to take their position behind the plate. This way, there is no needless killing the ball, and nothing can happen without an umpire taking note of it and being able to rule on it.


Scott

[WestMichiganBlue]

Skahtboi: "This way, there is no needless killing the ball, and nothing can happen without an umpire taking note of it and being able to rule on it."

Irish: "If not requested, I wouldn't call time . . . ."

Andy: "I try to keep the ball live as much as possible in a FP game."

I fully agree with all above, but it is always good to hear opposing opinions.

For those that detected dissention in the crew - not true. Partner is a friend that I have been mentoring; we will work 10 - 12 games together this season. He called football for 25 years; but is a rookie in softball. (But has coached and umpired rec FP SB, had two daughters that played in H.S.) Because of his football training, he understands the importance of mechanics and studies the Umpire Manual and a couple ASA tapes I gave him. He is becoming good; he doesn't look like a rookie anymore.

But this action took me completely by surprise. Apparently he got that from some other umpires he worked with. My "SP" comment was a dig at him to get back on FP track. I've worked with a partner that, as soon as the runner simply looked up from her slide, he jumped in and called time. Without even looking around! A couple others want to kill the ball every time they have to walk back home from 3B. Those people frustrate me and I don't want this "new" guy going that way.

WMB

[kellerumps]

WMB,

My bad......We had a game once where I made some smart comment to my wife and she just gave me "The Look"....Well the first base coach picked up on it and said something to the effect that "Hey blue that plate umpire is terrible..You shouldn't work with her any more.". I replied "What is wrong with MY WIFES Zone Coach?"

He replied "Your Wife?????????" "Yup".

He didn't look at me the rest of the game

[CecilOne]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
... snip ... It is a common courtesy to give a slider time to brush themselves off.

But not while the SS is still holding the ball. As said: "You turn around; the runner is on the base; F6 is holding his/her glove with the ball on the runner still yelling that she is out. (and perhaps this is why you didn't call TIME???)"

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
... snip ... If you have turned your back and are now leaving for your next appropriate position... you don't know what is going on behind you. F6 yells, "I tagged her. She was off the base and I tagged her. She's out!" What will you do now?

Tell F6 she's safe. Even if it's your mistake, it has to be seen.

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
... snip ... I do a similar thing for overthrows at 1st. Runner turns to the outside and is not making any attempt to advance. I call time and walk away while F3 scrambles for the ball. I remove any opportunity for F3 to try to convince me that the runner's accomplishment of reaching 1st or that F3's fielding error should be overturned now with a tag. The play is done; I'm gone and getting ready for the next pitch.

I don't think this is a good idea. Like calling time in the original post, it takes away a runner's opportunity to advance or be put out and the players should control the game.

[CecilOne]

Originally posted by Skahtboi
That is why, when working the two man system, more and more the clinics are teaching you, in FP, for one umpire to always be watching the infield. Never, ever should both umpires turn their backs on a potential play. The way the mechanic works is simple. When all play has ceased, and the ball has been returned to the pitcher in the circle, the PU releases the BU to take his/her position in the field. When the BU has reached said position and is watching the infield, they release the PU to take their position behind the plate. This way, there is no needless killing the ball, and nothing can happen without an umpire taking note of it and being able to rule on it.


Scott

Good stuff, but it seems to me the PU should go first as the PU has more to do and usually a shorter distance. Then when the PU is back "home" and watching, the BU can move out. As PU, I try to back-pedal after a play to observe as much as possible while I'm returning. Even as BU, if I can turn around, check the nearest runner over my shoulder and back-pedal, I do it there, too. Both of course, after the pitcher has the ball in the circle. Side note: head down myopic views are for typists, not officials.