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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 17, 2003, 01:19am
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Got a question for you guys

Question #97 R1 on 1B. after 2-3 pitches. F1 requests the count. While the umpire is responding, R1 attempts to advance and is thrown out by F2. The umpire should

a. call R1 out on the call at 2nd
b. call R1 out for leaving the base on a live ball
c. call time and return R1 to 1B as play is suspended while the umpire was performing his duties
d. call time and award R1 second base

I am told the correct answer on the test is "C". I have a hard time with this it just doesnt seem right and believe the correct answer should be "A". It does say in the rule book under section 10 that play is suspended while a umpire is performing his duties such as cleaning the plate, etc.
But 1st in this situation where the ball has not been return to the pitcher I dont believe the umpire should be performing duties that would suspend plays


Would like some convincing from you guys that you would agree with C. as the correct answer in this situation

Don
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Old Mon Feb 17, 2003, 09:12am
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Cool

if "giving the count" is done during a
"time out"-- it is news to me !
if the catcher has the ball, and R1 has
lead off 1st base, and no umpire has called
for time out-- I would answer "C" also !
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Old Mon Feb 17, 2003, 07:03pm
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SWFLguy,

Are you sure you mean what you typed?

SWFLguy wrote:

if the catcher has the ball, and R1 has
lead off 1st base, and no umpire has called
for time out-- I would answer "C" also !


c. call time and return R1 to 1B as play is suspended while the umpire was performing his duties.

I think if no umpire has called time out, I would go
with "a. Call R1 out of the play at second."

However, if ASA considers giving the count sorta like cleaning
[performing his duty] the plate and time would be called, then c. is good.

BTW was this ASA or Fed, I don't see that it would make a big
differences, however~~~~.Opppppps read the post title ASA.
My bad.

JMO,

glen

[Edited by whiskers_ump on Feb 17th, 2003 at 06:05 PM]
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Old Tue Feb 18, 2003, 09:59am
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I don't understand this rule/question at all. Why would time be called to give the count? It takes what, a second to tell the pitcher what the count is? And how are F2 and R1 affected by the ump telling F1 what the count is? Call R1 out and keep the game going.
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Old Tue Feb 18, 2003, 01:13pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by gsf23
I don't understand this rule/question at all. Why would time be called to give the count? It takes what, a second to tell the pitcher what the count is? And how are F2 and R1 affected by the ump telling F1 what the count is? Call R1 out and keep the game going.
The point here is that an umpire should only provide the count during a "suspension" of play. Because this diverts the umpire's attention away from any possible play at hand.

Best rule of thumb is to only give the count when the pitcher has the ball in the circle and not set to pitch (FP) or after time has been called (SP).

Like cleaning the plate, this period is considered a suspension of play, no runners may advance and no outs may be made.

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Old Tue Feb 18, 2003, 07:14pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
Quote:
Originally posted by gsf23
I don't understand this rule/question at all. Why would time be called to give the count? It takes what, a second to tell the pitcher what the count is? And how are F2 and R1 affected by the ump telling F1 what the count is? Call R1 out and keep the game going.
The point here is that an umpire should only provide the count during a "suspension" of play. Because this diverts the umpire's attention away from any possible play at hand.

Best rule of thumb is to only give the count when the pitcher has the ball in the circle and not set to pitch (FP) or after time has been called (SP).

Like cleaning the plate, this period is considered a suspension of play, no runners may advance and no outs may be made.

Mike,

Glen wrote:

However, if ASA considers giving the count sorta like cleaning
[performing his duty] the plate and time would be called, then c. is good.


Guessed it right then huh, did'nt I did'nt I?

I figured there would be a catch, however, I would have probably,
maybe, just about called him/her out. Unless in fact I had called
time, or my partner.

glen
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Old Tue Feb 18, 2003, 10:45pm
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Well, 10-8-B in the ancient 2002 book says, "Play will be suspended whenever the plate umpire leaves the umpires [sic] position to brush the plate or to perform other duties not directly connected with the calling of plays."

Does the test question say that the umpire left the umpire's position?

I've always assumed that play was suspended whenever an umpire addressed a player, even if "time" was not literally called. "Batter, tuck your shirt in." "First baseman, kick the bag in, will you?" "Catcher, let me see the ball." "Coach, get that bat in the dugout." All those mean "time out."

Question #97 seems to draw a definite line indicating that practically any non-call communication from the ump to a player suspends play. We can stretch this a little further and create some real inanities. Ball returned to the infield after Abel's single. Abel is standing on 1B. Catcher asks, "Two out, Blue?" As we say, "Yeah," F4 tosses the ball to F1 and R1 breaks for 2B and is put out. Was play suspended when the ump answered the catcher?

What if, in question #97, the ump answered, "Two and one," and five full seconds later, the runner was put out after breaking for 2B on F2's throw back to F1?

Guess the lesson is, as Mike says, not to give the count unless there has been a genuine suspension of play.





[Edited by greymule on Feb 20th, 2003 at 02:13 PM]
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Old Thu Feb 20, 2003, 02:21pm
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OOOOOOPS
I meant answer "A" was my choice
(oh no not another senior moment !!)
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Old Thu Feb 20, 2003, 07:49pm
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The umpire should not respond to the batters request until the ball is in the circle. If they do, they have in effect "called time". Same thing goes for the runner leading off at 3rd as the pitcher is walking toward the circle. Wait to clean the plate til the play is over.
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Old Wed Mar 12, 2003, 04:39pm
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For discussion, ignore the issue of whether the umpire should or should not have responded.

For now, ignore whether the umpire actually did respond or not.

What if R1 made it safely to 2nd? Would you penalize her because F1 asked a question while she was stealing? Carrying it further, if you saw R1 hesitate when F1 asked the question, would you consider obstruction (verbal)? If you would have called the runner safe, why not call the runner out?

Is the "umpire performing duties" only if the umpire responds, or also if F1 asks and the presumption is that the ump will respond (sooner or later).

Now answer the questions again with the umpire responding and then agian with the umpire giving the count without being asked.
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Old Wed Mar 12, 2003, 05:21pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by CecilOne
For discussion, ignore the issue of whether the umpire should or should not have responded.

For now, ignore whether the umpire actually did respond or not.

What if R1 made it safely to 2nd? Would you penalize her because F1 asked a question while she was stealing? Carrying it further, if you saw R1 hesitate when F1 asked the question, would you consider obstruction (verbal)? If you would have called the runner safe, why not call the runner out?

Is the "umpire performing duties" only if the umpire responds, or also if F1 asks and the presumption is that the ump will respond (sooner or later).

Now answer the questions again with the umpire responding and then agian with the umpire giving the count without being asked.
I don't think you can really ignore the umpire's disposition as that is what determines whether the ball is active or not.

If the umpire(s) is not distracted, then it is play-on until something occurs which would call for a stoppage of play.

You cannot rule obstruction as this is a legitimate question.

This entire thread comes down to game control by the umpire.

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