More obstruction

greymule · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 27, 2003, 11:34pm

As long as we're on the topic of obstruction, how would you call these?:

Abel on 2B, Baker on 1B, 2 outs. Charles hits a smash to F5, who backhands the ball on one hop and starts toward 3B for the force out. Abel then trips over F6, 50 feet from 3B, just before F5 tags 3B. F5, seeing the obstruction, then fires to 1B to retire Charles easily.

Dead ball and obstruction the moment F5 tagged 3B to retire Abel?

Or same play but F5, seeing the obstruction, decides not to step on 3B and instead fires to 1B to retire Charles.

Third out?

ronald · #2 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 28, 2003, 01:52am

Greymule,

Actually had a play similar to what you describe in the Pony Nationals last year. We did not give them the last out. We put the runner on 3rd.

In the second situation, when he throws to first to get the third out, inning is over.

Dakota · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 28, 2003, 11:20am

I agree with Ronald.

#1: The ball is dead as soon as R1 is put out on the force. BR is not out because the ball is dead. Enforce the obstruction.

#2: Delayed dead ball, BR out on the play. R1 ends up on the base you judge he would have achieved - moot, though, 3rd out ends the inning.

gsf23 · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 28, 2003, 11:57am

I'm sorry, but I would have a hard time calling obstruciton on a play such as this. Let me get it straight here:
The defense has the ball one step away from 3B for a force out, and the runner being forced is obstructed 50ft away from the play?!? Calling obstruction on that play is just ridiculous. On obstruction, I am supposed to protect the runner to the base they would have recieved without the obstruction. Without the obstruction, it is obvious that the runner still wouldn't have gotten to 3B before the force was made. I think that a play like this is the reason for the example in POE #34..

from POE #34: "A runner leaving second base too soon on a fly ball is returning after the ball is caught and is obstructed between 2B and 3B. If the runner would not have made it back to 2B prior to the throw arriving, he would remain out.

In this Situation, both instances, out..end of inning...

[Edited by gsf23 on Jan 28th, 2003 at 11:00 AM]

Dakota · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 28, 2003, 12:13pm

Quote:

Originally posted by gsf23
I think that a play like this is the reason for the example in POE #34..

No, I disagree. The POE states for itself the reason for the example, "It should also be clear that when saying 'a runner cannot be called out between the two bases he was obstructed' does not pertain when another violation is being played upon. (e.g. ... (your quote goes here)"

There is no other violation in this situation. Too bad, so sad for the defense, but the infraction cost them an out.

Buck912 · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 28, 2003, 03:31pm

I have to disagree with Ronald and Tom on the example #2. In my opinion (speaking Federation rules), if the 3rd baseman, after the obstruction, throws the BR out at first, the offensive coach would have a choice of the play or taking the penalty for obstruction. The BR would not be out if the coach chooses to have the obstruction penalty enforced. I would place the R1 on 3rd base and the BR would be entitled to first base, assuming the coach elects to have the penalty enforced. And in this situation the coach's choice would be obvious......

Roger Greene · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 28, 2003, 04:51pm

Buck,
How would the out at 1st not be valid in Fed? The obstruction did not affect the BR. There is no option on obstruction of a runner. You place the obstructed runner, and any other runner "affected" by the obstruction, where they would have been absent the obstruction.

I agree with Ronald on his ruling, Pony or Fed.

Roger Greene

ps. Ronald, Did we have any games together at the Nationals in Raleigh last year. Lions Park, maybe?

Roger

Steve M · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 28, 2003, 04:55pm

Buck,
Even under Fed rules, your application is wrong. I see that Roger - our resident Fed guru - beat me to this one. I agree with Roger's explanation - Fed, ASA, NCAA, and any other organization.

Steve M

ronald · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 28, 2003, 05:34pm

Roger,

No. I did the one in Sterling Va 10, 12 and 14u. I came late to this area and got picked up by Larry Despains when we worked a Pony tourney in No Va. Wanted to go to Raleigh but would have had to take the kids, so the cost made it impossible.

Roger Greene · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 28, 2003, 10:46pm

I worked both, but the only "Ronald" I recall working with was in Raleigh. Maybe we can get the call again this year. I had a good time.

Roger Greene

ronald · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 28, 2003, 11:45pm

I'd like to work them both this year but I will be in Kiev, Ukraine when they they occur. My wife's job is taking us there. I had a good time at Sterling.