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Sat Jan 18, 2003, 03:52pm
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Figured this should be on a separate thread. We've been talking about "intent" as regards both interference in softball and criminal acts in society. The big topic today on Philadelphia talk radio was the decision of a prosecutor to try a 15-year-old as an adult in a controversial case. The kid dropped an 18-pound chunk of ice off a highway overpass near Allentown, Pennsylvania, timing the drop so the ice would strike a car. Well, he scored a hit, and the ice crashed through the windshield and killed a 33-year-old mother of three.
A lot of people are arguing that since the kid did not intend to hurt anyone and was only pulling a foolish prank, he should be tried as a juvenile. (I don't know what it's like in North Carolina, Roger, but around here trying someone as a juvenile is tantamount to letting him go.) They're even setting up a defense fund for the kid. The woman who was killed happened to live in my town.
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greymule More whiskey—and fresh horses for my men! Roll Tide! 
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Sat Jan 18, 2003, 05:21pm
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greymule,
Twenty odd years ago when I was in DC, the thing was dropping *man hole covers* from the over passes. Two people were killed during this activity. Same group of kids responsible for both acts. All three got life, however, I am not sure how long they actually stayed in the system what with the parole system the way it is.  glen
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glen _______________________________ "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." --Mark Twain.
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Sat Jan 18, 2003, 08:46pm
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This is not softball, but in NC any crime committed by anyone who has reached their 16th birthday is in the jurisdiction of the adult courts. If a child between the ages of 13 and 16 commits a felony, the District Attorney can ask a District Court Judge in the Juvenile Court Division to transfer the case to Superior Court to have the defendant treated as an adult.( As an Investigator with The Sheriff;s Department back in the 70s I charged a kid who was a couple of months past his 13th birthday with 1st degree murder, and he pled to 2nd degree as an adult.) Children under the age of 7 years are generaly presumed incapable of forming criminal intent.
Some argue that we hold children responsible for their actions at too young an age. I don't agree. At the age of 11 years my father found himselsf acting as head of a household in the 1920s with 4 younger siblings, and one older brother who was not responsible enough to do the job. He was responsible enough to hold the family together. Too long in this country we have not held people responsible for their actions, children and adults. And, Mike, I find myself regularly standing between the police powers of the state and the citizens. Part of my job is to tell the police no, you may not arrest/search/seize/or enter as the case may be. Does not always make me the most popular guy at department staff meetings, I'm sure. But at least the county Sheriff was once a rookie officer that I took with me on his first felony investigation 25 years ago, and the local Chief of Police was a street officer at the same time I was a road deputy, and I used to hire him as my umpire when I was coaching softball. We all stil have a mutual respect for each other. I too am troubled by those who would give up liberty for security, for as Benjamine Franklin (I think) was reported to have said "He who surrenders liberty for security soon finds himself with neither." (or words to that effect) Roger Greene
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Sat Jan 18, 2003, 10:13pm
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Pretty good off the top of your head, Roger. I think the verbatim wording was "Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security." Words as true today as they were in 1776.
In New Jersey, when a 13-year-old commits murder, the local bleeding-hearts outdo themselves trying to see who can give him the most hugs. I've seen it happen. In this state, a juvenile practically has to make the front pages with a crime before anything more than probation is ordered. New York is worse, if that's imaginable. A few years ago, a kid just months shy of his 18th birthday vandalized my car in the middle of the night to the tune of about $2000. (Just malice. I didn't know him, and he didn't know me.) However, my neighbor, a small Guatemalan guy, saw him doing it and banged on my front door in a vain attempt to wake me. Anyway, my neighbor recognized the six-three, 225 lb. "child" and, though very much afraid of reprisal, went with me to the station and positively, unhesitatingly identified him out of hundreds of pictures. The police were delighted, because several other cars on the street had also been vandalized that night, and with an eyewitness they had the case in the bag. The kid's parents initially tried to alibi for him, but when they learned there was an eyewitness, they backed off. The kid did deny vandalizing any of the other cars, though. So the D.A. sent me forms to fill out about how I felt about having the crime committed against me, did I want restitution, please send in copies of the repair bills, etc. But months later, I got a boilerplate letter from the D.A.'s office telling me that judge so-and-so had dismissed the charges. I called in immediately to ask (1) how could the charges be dismissed in an open-and-shut case? and (2) why did they bother having me get copies of repair bills? Answers: (1) in the interests of efficiency, we agreed that if the kid pled guilty to 23 counts, we would drop the other 31; the malicious mischief to your car was one of the 31, and (2) I guess we blew it; we didn't see the paperwork in the file. By the way, the sentence was probation. (That's supposed to be confidential, but I found out anyway.) Perhaps the judge also gave him a stern lecture. The guy, now an "adult," makes the paper every few weeks for having been arrested for various offenses. And Roger: I think that former Yankee pitcher Tommy Byrne had a career as a North Carolina sheriff after he retired from the big leagues. Had dinner with Tommy a few years ago. Did you ever meet him?
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greymule More whiskey—and fresh horses for my men! Roll Tide!
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Sat Jan 18, 2003, 10:29pm
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Quote:
Roger Greene
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Sat Jan 18, 2003, 11:02pm
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I'll try to find out what county Tommy Byrne is in.
For those who don't remember Tommy Byrne, he was a fine pitcher and hitter for the Yankees, Browns, Senators, and White Sox. He told me he was the first player ever traded from the Yankees and then back to the Yankees. According to a web site, he once hit a ninth-inning pinch-hit grand slam for the White Sox to beat his former team, the Yankees. Another time he pitched a 13-inning game in which he walked 16 batters. Incredibly, he won the game 3-1. Can anyone imagine that happening now?
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greymule More whiskey—and fresh horses for my men! Roll Tide!
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Sun Jan 19, 2003, 04:25pm
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Just for my clarification, guys, can any of you tell me just what in the heck all of this has to do with the game of softball, or any aspect of sports officiating?
Aren't there more appropriate venues other than a softball board on an official's website to vent your political views/frustrations? Maybe this will help: http://www.conservativeschatroom.homestead.com/ Scott
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Sun Jan 19, 2003, 04:59pm
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Quote:
It's Roger's fault! He started it with by comparing a play to a legal interpretation. I couldn't help it, the stress compelled me to react in a manner consistent with the present day politically corrupt immoral attitude of the rich and famous! But don't worry about me. I've got a great shot of full recovery since my attorney explained that Roger and e-officiating will be held financially liable for all my medical and legal bills along with the compensation necessary to sooth my nerves and provide complete rehabilitation to allow me to escape the trappings of the immoral ineptitude of those in control and begin my life anew. If anyone buys that, I know where there is some serious swampland in Florida I can get you for a good price.
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The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
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Sun Jan 19, 2003, 06:45pm
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Go ahead and blame me Mike. With a wife and 3 daughters I'm used to it. (Besides, I though it a good analogy to what intentional means in this rule.)
Roger Greene
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