You Make The Call

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Richardr10
Because the batter-runner never reached first. The ball became dead on the interference before reaching first. Am I looking to deep into this?

Once the batter legally puts the ball into play, there is no going back.

Maybe I could better understand your train of thought if you tell us which rules you are referencing?

[whiskers_ump]

Richard10,

I agree with Mike, why go to TOP.

Currently I only have the AFA/NCAA rules with me, but would think
ASA was pretty close .

AFA -
Section 9.6e. [Runner interference]: A base runner, after
being declared out or after scoring, may not interfere with
a defensive player's opportunity to make a play on another
runner.
PENALTY - The ball is dead, and the runner closest to HP
at the time of the interference shall be declared out. {In
our case BR since runner on 3rd has crossed HP and no longer
a runner} {In this case too, it would be the 3rd out and since
BR never reached 1B run could not score} Each base runner must
return to the last base legally touched at the time of the
interference, NOT TOP.
Therefore, in your updated version, yes, the run would count
since we had no outs to start, got R2 going to 2nd and the
2nd out on the interference - BR. Run scored.


glen

[greymule]

Roger: I'm going by the several plays under #238 in the 2002 OBR. These involve baserunning errors where a force is NOT removed even though a following runner has been put out. (Note the differences between NCAA and Fed/OBR, as well as the key element in Fed/OBR that the baserunning error must occur before the following runner is put out.)

In certain other plays, it is entirely possible that the defense could appeal in the "wrong" order and allow a run to score. Here's one off the top of my head:

R3 on 3B, R2 on 2B, 1 out. BR hits a double but misses first. R3 scores, and R2 scores but misses 3B. If the defense appeals R2 at 3B, then BR at 1B, the third out is a force and R3's run is nullified. If they appeal BR at 1B first, then R2's out for missing 3B (not a force) is the third out and R3's run would count.

I'll also check the ref you cited.

[Roger Greene]

Greymule,
Section 238 deals with appeals on a forced runner being in effect even though a following runner was put out during playing action. (A good way to remember this is that generally the runner is considered to have missed his base before the put out on the following runner occured. Therefore the force remains on the appeal. Play 85-238 with the 6-4-3 DP is an aberation caused by the NCAA wording.)

Your play deals with the third out made by the BR at 1st. That is never a force out, but a different rule.

Section 12 deals with multiple outs on appeal and the order those outs are recorded. The order of multiple appeals definately matters!

Reread 238 and 12 and I'm sure you will agree.

Roger Greene

ps If you don't, maybe we should go to the BB side before Mike scolds us. (big G)

[greymule]

Roger: Apparently you are correct, but there are still some issues. (I know the BR out at 1B is technically not a force, too.) I will continue on a new thread on BB when I get the time. Thanks.

[greymule]

In searching for something else in the ASA case book, I found the exact play that whiskers brought up to start this thread:

5.5-17

R1 is on 3B and R2 is on 1B with one out when B3 hits a ground ball to F6 who throws to 2B for one out, and on the relay to 1B, R2 is called for interference. R1 had scored prior to the interference occurring. The next runner closest to home is B3 who [sic] the umpire calls out for the third out.

Ruling: Since this out is the batter-runner at 1B for the third out of the inning, the run will not count. (5-5B; 8-8P)

[whiskers_ump]

greymule,

Thanks for the reference. I looked, or at least I called
myself looking. Guess as Mike says, I need new reading
glasses. .


glen