"2 layers of tape" rule for bats

[Tap]

Talking ASA slow pitch. Just curious which umpires would enforce this rule and which would not, or would enforce it only if the other team raised the issue. With regard to the reason for the rule, is it an issue of safety (e.g. excessive tape by the knob makes the bat more likely to fly out of control) or getting an advantage somehow, or both? And is the rule more appropriate for FP or MP, as opposed to SP?

As a player, I tape my bats and it usually ends up being more than 2 layers just ABOVE the knob, to make a taper. It's more comfortable. I don't think it makes the bat more likely to fly out of my hands and I don't think I get an advantage leverage-wise (it does not make the bat longer).

Are umpires who call players on this, talking SP particularly, doing a service safety-wise and fairness wise, or merely being nitpicky and "looking for boogers"? Again, I am not talking about an attempt to extend the bat's length, which clearly is illegal and should be enforced strictly.

As an umpire, I would not call the "2 layer of tape rule" unless it was very obvious and clearly violated the rule about needing 1/2 of an inch b/w the knob and handle or was an attempt to make the bat longer. But if I am persuaded on this board that it's a major safety issue, I might reconsider my position.

[oppool]

I dont see a big safty issue here and a very small advantage issue on excessive tape. I have only once enforced the rule and it was for the opposite reason there was only one layer of tape on the bat and it only came up about 6" so I had them remove the bat from the game. I would probably never miss with this rule in regualar league play unless the problem was brought up by a opposing team manager. In tournament play during pre-game inspection I would inform the manager to remove the bat if it was illegal

JMO

Don

[gsf23]

Personally I have never called anyone on it except in the case of not having enough tape on the bat.

I too also like to taper the knob of my bat just because of the grip I use. I've never had an offical take a bat of mine out of play for it, but I have had a few opposing players complain about it and say that it violates the rule. I think this is a rule that most umpires really aren't that much concerned with. When I check bats, I just want to make sure that they are certified and not cracked.

[Elaine "Lady Blue"]

I think most umpires are not nit picky. I only pull bats out for loose tape that's hanging off, or not enough tape up the barrel. Almost every time that I've pointed it out to coaches, they whip out the correct type and re-tape it so the players may use it. We are more concerned with cracks, dents or any altered bats than we are tape. Don't y'all think so, gang?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Yes, it is a safety issue. Tapering the handle to meet the knob reduces the effectiveness of the knob.

I have pulled bats during a pre-game inspection for this violation, but have never needed to remove it from the game as the player would simply remove the excess tape. It is usually not a big deal.

Once again, it is a safety factor and if someone gets hurt with a bat with excess tape, the player and umpire may be subject to litigation.

Personally, I could care less about how you tape your bat. Or at least, not until I see that you may have a difficult time retaining a grip after a swing.

[gsf23]

What's the difference between a bat that has a tapered handle and one that has been taped to have a tapered handle.

I know the rule says that a cone shape or taper has to be permanately attached to the bat. What would you do if a player told you that the taper was permanently attached?

[Elaine "Lady Blue"]

Unless the permanately tapered bat met ASA bat qualifications (which I seriously doubt), I would remove it from the game. Mike is right, the knob is on the bat for a purpose and the handle should not be altered (tapered down)
with tape or a grip. It IS a safety issue!
No offense, gst23, but are you an umpire and a player, or just a player? Usually questions about bats' tape/grip come from SP players. Just checking------

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by gsf23
What's the difference between a bat that has a tapered handle and one that has been taped to have a tapered handle.

I know the rule says that a cone shape or taper has to be permanately attached to the bat. What would you do if a player told you that the taper was permanently attached?

I would confiscate the bat and let him/her pick it up after the tournament.

Speaking ASA, I would like to know the rule to which you are referring. There is no allowance for any attachment which tapers the handle of a bat.

[gsf23]

I am a player and I umpired for ten years (ASA Certified)before I moved to an area that didn't have any softball so I've been out of it for a couple of years.

The rule I was refereing too and I don't remember it exactly because I don't have a rule book with me, but when it came to the handle on the bat, I remember something about the cone or flare grip being illegal unless it was permantly attached to the bat. I know that Louiville and Easton all have bat models that have tapered handles that are legal for ASA play.

Examples of a bat with a tapered handle that is legal for ASA play:
http://www.softball.com/prodimages/ST7Z.jpg
http://www.softball.com/prodimages/TECHFIRE.jpg

As I said before, I've been playing for about 15 years, umpired for ten, and I have always taped my bat the same way, never have I had an umpire tell me it was illegal.

[Edited by gsf23 on Jan 4th, 2003 at 04:51 PM]

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by gsf23
I am a player and I umpired for ten years (ASA Certified)before I moved to an area that didn't have any softball so I've been out of it for a couple of years.

The rule I was refereing too and I don't remember it exactly because I don't have a rule book with me, but when it came to the handle on the bat, I remember something about the cone or flare grip being illegal unless it was permantly attached to the bat. I know that Louiville and Easton all have bat models that have tapered handles that are legal for ASA play.

Examples of a bat with a tapered handle that is legal for ASA play:
http://www.softball.com/prodimages/ST7Z.jpg
http://www.softball.com/prodimages/TECHFIRE.jpg

As I said before, I've been playing for about 15 years, umpired for ten, and I have always taped my bat the same way, never have I had an umpire tell me it was illegal.

[Edited by gsf23 on Jan 4th, 2003 at 04:51 PM]

ASA 3.1 THE OFFICIAL BAT
L. It may be molded, lathe, welded or permanently fashtened. A "flare" or "cone" grip attached to the bat will be considered altered. The know may be taped as long as there is no violation of this section.


ASA requires the knob to be concentric to the bat handle with a minimum diameter one-half inch greater than the handle diameter including the grip. The knob portion adjacent to the grip must extend at least one-eighth inch beyond the grip and be with 10 degrees of the perpendicular to the longitudinal axis of the handle.

Hope that helps.

[whiskers_ump]

Could not we just consider this an altered bat. since adding
the *extra* tape layers makes it just that.

Altered Bat. A bat is considered altered when the physical
structure of a legal softball bat has been changed. A "flare"
or "cone" grip attached to the bat handle, inserting material
inside the bat, applying excessive tape [more than 2 layers]
to the bat grip or painting a bat other than at the top
or bottom for identification purposes are examples of
alterting a bat. Replacing the grip with another legal
grip is not considered altering the bat.
If we are going to apply the rules - lets apply all the
rules. {and yes, I have probably let some slip}


glen

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by whiskers_ump
Could not we just consider this an altered bat. since adding
the *extra* tape layers makes it just that.

Altered Bat. A bat is considered altered when the physical
structure of a legal softball bat has been changed. A "flare"
or "cone" grip attached to the bat handle, inserting material
inside the bat, applying excessive tape [more than 2 layers]
to the bat grip or painting a bat other than at the top
or bottom for identification purposes are examples of
alterting a bat. Replacing the grip with another legal
grip is not considered altering the bat.
If we are going to apply the rules - lets apply all the
rules. {and yes, I have probably let some slip}


glen

If an umpire is doing their job, this will rarely happen. Preventive umpiring keeps us out of a lot of hassles.