Obstruction still applies? or remove it? (NFHS)

[CajunNewBlue]

No one on, BR (batter runner) going to 1st on a batted ball. It is going to be a close play at the bag. There is a bad throw to the 1st baseman which goes into foul territory, where the RF is waiting to back up the throw at 1st.
Just as the BR passes 1st, the 1st baseman turns to go retrieve the ball and knocks the BR down as she is stopping in foul territory on her run through at 1st. At this point the U2 has OBS(obstruction) on the 1st baseman. The BR gets up and goes back to 1st.
The BR is now stopped at 1st. The RF throws the ball in to the 2nd baseman whom turns towards the pitcher and walks toward the circle and is going to hand the ball to the pitcher in the circle. BR steps off the bag as this process is going on. As the ball is being transferred from 2nd baseman to pitcher in the circle, the BR takes off for second base. The pitcher takes the ball and throws to the SS and receives the throw and tags the BR out by 6 feet before 2nd.
The BU called time, signaled the OBS again on the first baseman then sent the batter/runner back to first on the OBS...During the ensuing conference after an appeal by the DC,The plate umpire disagreed with the ruling by the BU, but it wasnt overturned.
Its been a full week now and its still a point of contention.

This was already posted by me on the NFHS forum. Just wanted to give the question/play its fair share. So I posted it in here. Any new (valid) debate about this would be welcomed.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

No one on, BR (batter runner) going to 1st on a batted ball. It is going to be a close play at the bag. There is a bad throw to the 1st baseman which goes into foul territory, where the RF is waiting to back up the throw at 1st.
Just as the BR passes 1st, the 1st baseman turns to go retrieve the ball and knocks the BR down as she is stopping in foul territory on her run through at 1st. At this point the U2 has OBS(obstruction) on the 1st baseman. The BR gets up and goes back to 1st.
The BR is now stopped at 1st. The RF throws the ball in to the 2nd baseman whom turns towards the pitcher and walks toward the circle and is going to hand the ball to the pitcher in the circle. BR steps off the bag as this process is going on. As the ball is being transferred from 2nd baseman to pitcher in the circle, the BR takes off for second base. The pitcher takes the ball and throws to the SS and receives the throw and tags the BR out by 6 feet before 2nd.
The BU called time, signaled the OBS again on the first baseman then sent the batter/runner back to first on the OBS...During the ensuing conference after an appeal by the DC,The plate umpire disagreed with the ruling by the BU, but it wasnt overturned.
Its been a full week now and its still a point of contention.

This was already posted by me on the NFHS forum. Just wanted to give the question/play its fair share. So I posted it in here. Any new (valid) debate about this would be welcomed.

Seems everybody there agrees. There's a clear exception for when obstruction ends. It's when there's a play on a subsequent runner after they've reached the base they would have obtained. And that didn't happen. So I'm not sure what there would be to add.

But this does raise a question I've been wondering about. Should we kill the ball for obstruction on every play. On a play like this, I like your BU, generally don't kill the ball. And nobody has ever told me to.[*] But if the BU had killed the play at the end of playing action here then we don't have this problem.

[*] Well, one ump did tell me that, but that was because he had just worked a college game and was thinking I should go give a warning to the player. So that hardly counts.

[CecilOne]

An example of where so-called common sense/ logic / fairness / whatever does not obviate applying the rule in the book.

[CajunNewBlue]

Originally Posted by youngump

[*] Well, one ump did tell me that, but that was because he had just worked a college game and was thinking I should go give a warning to the player. So that hardly counts.

Warning for what? In my NCAA rulebook I dont. (not as it pertains to the OP)

[youngump]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

Warning for what? In my NCAA rulebook I dont. (not as it pertains to the OP)

I'm nowhere near good enough to do NCAA, I think the warning is for obstruction while rounding a base or returning? Anyway, it was a situation where it applied except that they were high school players.

[CajunNewBlue]

In the OP there is no rounding nor returning to be dealt when the OBS occurred... if you want to take the NCAA tack is all im saying.
"the 1st baseman turns to go retrieve the ball and knocks the BR down as she is stopping in foul territory on her run through at 1st."

So a warning would not apply had this play occurred at the NCAA level. (im going from memory as rulebook is packed in my bag...probably some darned exception when running thru first.. lol)

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

No one on, BR (batter runner) going to 1st on a batted ball. It is going to be a close play at the bag. There is a bad throw to the 1st baseman which goes into foul territory, where the RF is waiting to back up the throw at 1st.
Just as the BR passes 1st, the 1st baseman turns to go retrieve the ball and knocks the BR down as she is stopping in foul territory on her run through at 1st. At this point the U2 has OBS(obstruction) on the 1st baseman. The BR gets up and goes back to 1st.
The BR is now stopped at 1st. The RF throws the ball in to the 2nd baseman whom turns towards the pitcher and walks toward the circle and is going to hand the ball to the pitcher in the circle. BR steps off the bag as this process is going on. As the ball is being transferred from 2nd baseman to pitcher in the circle, the BR takes off for second base. The pitcher takes the ball and throws to the SS and receives the throw and tags the BR out by 6 feet before 2nd.
The BU called time, signaled the OBS again on the first baseman then sent the batter/runner back to first on the OBS...During the ensuing conference after an appeal by the DC,The plate umpire disagreed with the ruling by the BU, but it wasnt overturned.
Its been a full week now and its still a point of contention.

This was already posted by me on the NFHS forum. Just wanted to give the question/play its fair share. So I posted it in here. Any new (valid) debate about this would be welcomed.

Who decides the validity of the new post?


I'd post a comment, but I'd be afraid it isn't new or it isn't valid!!

PS: it might be nice to at least post a link to the discussion. Not everyone reads that forum...

[CajunNewBlue]

I do.. of course... perks of being OP poster.

[marvin]

NFHS forum Link

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

PS: it might be nice to at least post a link to the discussion. Not everyone reads that forum...

I think he is deliberately trying to have an independent non-influenced discussion, even though I posted my similar comment.

[Andy]

I agree with the ruling in the OP.

The B/R was obstructed between first and second, the playing action was not finished, her protection for OBS was still in effect, I also agree with the result of placing the runner back on first after she was put out.

When I teach on the OBS rule, I advise to give any benefit of the doubt to the offense...the defense violated a rule, why do umpires (NFHS board) look for reasons not to enforce the effects of the obstruction in this play?

[youngump]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

In the OP there is no rounding nor returning to be dealt when the OBS occurred... if you want to take the NCAA tack is all im saying.
"the 1st baseman turns to go retrieve the ball and knocks the BR down as she is stopping in foul territory on her run through at 1st."

So a warning would not apply had this play occurred at the NCAA level. (im going from memory as rulebook is packed in my bag...probably some darned exception when running thru first.. lol)

Yeah, I didn't mean to suggest it would apply in this play. It's just the only time anybody has ever told me to make the ball dead even if you don't have anything to say.