Pitcher's glove
 

Thoughts on this photo? Legal?

ASA and/or NFHS please.

Legal in NFHS. It is only two colors, neither of which is white, grey, or optic.

NFHS: 1-4-1

Assuming they aren't the only team in the world still using a white softball.

ASA legal also, 3-4, gloves may be one color or multi color as long as none of the colors are the color of the ball.

At second glance, the glove appears to be red, black, & blue, which would make it illegal in NFHS.

The floppy lacing may present a problem to some, but the colors are ok.

In an effort to hijack this, just a few comments about the other pictures:

Are they playing in a sandbox? And I say this because I haven't seen the field yet this year :(

The base umpire looks to have pretty good timing and positioning on the force plays at first.

Plate umpire - seems to have a good H/T on 2044, maybe a bit high, but IMO, working high is better than working low. Funny how plate is in a jacket and base is in sleeves.

And now the big hijack question: why the danglie? Seriously, what does this protect? If you are tracking like you are suppose to, it is not needed. To me, the danglie stopping a softball is akin to the foamy commercial where the shaving cream tries to stop the roller coaster.

I think too high. If I'm reading the photo correctly, his chin is up to the batter's shoulder.

I think so too, however I'm ok with it. One, I think that is easier to correct than those who set up too low. Also, being that this is a still picture, this may be his "adjusted" positioning based on the batter/catcher. My point is that I do like his right foot and hips from the angle provided by the photo.

I disagree with you on the dangling throat protector. I have been hit there before and while there was some pain, I believe it would have been much greater if I hadn't been wearing it. JMHO Dave

+1
me, too

I missed the blue. You'd be correct if that's the case. However, maybe the black is just a "weathered" blue. In one of the photos, it looks as if that might be the case.

NFHS: two colors or less (not including the lacing) as long as those colors are not white, grey, or optic, and it's legal.

Did you know that the "danglie" is required in NFHS?
I didn't know it was either until this year I happened to re-read that section while sitting on the crapper!

NFHS Umpire Manual p.19

Guess I better get one if I'm going to do post season....;)

I believe the built in "wire protect" as it is called satisfies this requirement. And that's my point, before the wire/extended protector became the design, the danglie was necessary to provide some protection. However, I think any mask designed for umpiring softball has the wire protector.

Those that I've seen hit in the throat (that number is 2), was due to a foul ball in which they a) didn't have time to react or b) reacted with a "wince". Neither time would have a danglie lessened the impact.

I think that the "floppy lacing" you are seeing are the lines on the jersey to her uniform. I don't see any "floppy lacing."

Believe what you will about the "danglie," but there is no way I would ever go without one. Been hit there before I started using it (one time was all it took), and about three times since. Trust me, it is worth every penny for the protection it provides.

And if you believe it is a "tracking" the ball issue, it isn't. If you are using a proper stance behind the plate, you are leaving yourself vunerable, albeit a small window of vunerability, if you don't use the throat protector ("danglie," in your vernacular.)

In reference to the OP, I see nothing wrong with the glove in the picture in either ASA or NFHS.

It does.

Okay - what do you think of MY stance (taken at the NY State School - the gentleman with the jacket and clipboard is Ed Whipple, a very senior SEC ump who comes up to help at our school):

http://www.nyssoump.org/images/Live%20Action.JPG

this was about three years ago, and I have lost about 50 lbs since :eek:

Who cares what I think.... the question is what did Ed think!!!!!;);)

He nitpicked a little, but otherwise I did well....

He does he greatest drunk I have ever seen!

Since you asked, I think you look pretty good with Heel Toe. I can't tell about your slot positioning due to the angle of the picture, but there are some clues (only opinion here). Being that your right shoulder looks lower than your left shoulder, that would indicate you are leaning into the strike zone. You may be too far in the slot (hence the lean). The reason I look for this is that is the adjustment I had to make a few years ago, because someone nitpicked me (and he happened to live in NY at the time :) ). My suggestion to you is to make sure your center your body on the batter's box line, that will put your ear on the plate. Again, I cannot tell from the angle, but there is a lean.

Congrats on the loss of 50 pounds. It seems the only way I could lose 50 pounds is to visit the horse track in England.

So - if your association/state dictates that both/all umps wear a jacket if one does; who gets to decide if you are wearing jackets?

Because if you work with me and it's my choice you are probably always going to be cold because I seldom wear a jacket.

I think it is a silly rule to require that all wear jackets if one does. Each individual has a different tolerance for cold/heat and each should be allowed to dress as needed as long as the clothing worn is proper for the sanctioning body. When I see only one ump in a jacket I just assume he's cold and the other person is not.

I totally agree with you, I don't think the comfort of one has to dictate the comfort (or discomfort) of your partner(s). The reason I said it was strange, usually you see the plate in sleeves (due to gear) and the BU(s) in jackets. I personally like the long sleeve jerseys, especially on the plate as opposed to a jacket.

When it the book NFHS / ASA book does it say just because your partner wears a jacket that you have too.?

It doesn't. I do.

IMO, nothing looks worse than a crew in different UNIFORMS. I see it in baseball all the time and, again IMO, it looks unprofessional.

And before you start with the, "but what does the color of my jacket have to do with my ability to make the right call" argument, it doesn't, but that isn't the point.

[Rant on uniforms]
Ever hear anyone state, "you only have one chance to make a first impression"? It is true and I can tell you as a player and coach and umpire, this is a true statement.

Ever get ready to play a game or watch your son/daughter play a game, take a look at the umpire approcahing the field and immediately you hear yourself say, "oh no, we've got to put up with him again"? It happens and often because of the dress.

I've seen umpires walk on the field with their shirt hanging out, hat on crooked, even wearing sailing gloves and I don't care if s/he is on their game, they will be a target for coaches and players simply because s/he doesn't look the part.
[Rant off]

That said, I understand circumstances where an umpire may need to remove a jacket or another one put it on. I know damn well that if I'm cold, I'm putting a jacket on. No one gets paid enough to get ill while working a game.

Thanks for the comments, I believe the lean was something Whipple 'nitpicked' on....

Just happens that the woman who teaches plate mechanics at the NYSSO school is in our group, and since then she has seen me work and says I am fine now.

That NYSSO school is something else - I have heard people who have been to various ASA schools say it is the best school they have ever been to. They mention that, unlike some schools, they treat you like adults! Also the teaching talent there is A-1, not only Whipple, my friends Bruce and Kathy, but the NYSSO Rules Interpreter is Jay Miner, so that school is pretty loaded.

Uniforms
 

I total agree with your Rant...

But you miss understood me / or you just wanted to scream and yell about uniforms. Which are my thoughts to the letter.

I have refused to take the field with slobs. Also I never have been dinged for my uniform in 30 years. My pride in my uniform comes from my time in the military.

I have refused to let umpires work because of their equipment.

As I was saying by my statement where does it say that I have to wear my jacket if my partner does?

Yet I keep hearing this old wives tale, if your partner wears their jacket you have too.

Time to put in in the book that it not required that you wear a jacket if your partner does. That you can wear anything that is proper uniform instead, shirt, sweater, or pullover.

Rant off.

What qabout this glove,Easton Natural Elite 12 inch Fastpitch Softball Glove

First time I tried posting a link, if it doesn't work its a Easton Natural Elite.

Thanks

Well, I don't want it in the book because I want that option as a tournament UIC and I don't need to get an argument about the "book".

And here is why. I have seen and had arguments about an umpire who will not wear a jacket, but will wear long-sleeve undershirt, sweater, sweat shirt, even a denim shirt under the uniform shirt. If it is that chilly you need that, you should be wearing a jacket, not looking like some college kid working an intramural game.

Whether you liked it or not, the old school NUS made sure that a crew on the field looked like a professional umpire.

And how timely this is. I received a call from a BASEBALL umpire complaining about how raggedy two umpires looked when they showed up to work a HS varsity game yesterday afternoon.

Yes, you heard me correctly. A baseball umpire working the HS baseball game called to inform me how unprofessional and disheveled both members of the softball crew appeared. Granted, this game was going to be a joke, but I don't care if the umpire is there for the money, game, vocation or just to piss away an afternoon, you should wear a proper and clean uniform which makes your fellow umpires proud to be associated with them.

Yeah, Yeah!

(add that to the list of annoying things - Umpires who dress to their perceived expectations of the quality of play)

You need to address the improper elements of the uniform with the person who is not dressed correctly. A blanket rule requiring all umps to wear a jacket if one does doesn't address the slobs - their shoes still won't be shined, their pants will probably not fit properly or be clean and un-wrinkled, and letting them put a jacket on to cover improper attire isn't the correct way to deal with this.

Making both umps wear a jacket when one does not need it for comfort is silly IMO. Making both umpires adhere to the proper dress code and to be professional in their appearance can be done without going to this extreme.

Don't know if you missed my point here, but it was that if it is cold enought to wear inappropriate attire, it is cold enough to wear the appropriate attire along with your partner.

As previously noted, I do not expect someone who is cold to go without just because his/her partner thinks it is manly to go without a jacket like those Cheeseheads (that's for you, Dave). OTOH, if it is that cold, I would rather have the umpires in matching uniforms. Again, I'm not asking an umpire to wear unnecessary apparel, just look professional in the appropriate uniform.

I think I'm not the only one who's having trouble following what your position is. So maybe you could break it down for me.

Sit: It's a chilly morning but it'swarming up and I've just done a game behind the plate. I go change for a base game and come back without my jacket because I'm nice and warm. You're a little more sensitive to the cold than me and are wearing a jacket.

Do you think this ok? Do I need to go get my jacket and be too warm? Do you need to go hang up your jacket?
________
VAPORIZER TV

In NH our NFHS guideline is that if the PU is wearing a jacket, the BU should be also.

However, if the PU decides not to wear a jacket, the BU still has the option of wearing one.

I guess the rationale is that perhaps w/ leg guards and chest protector, that may help to insulate the PU.

Not sure about everywhere else, but some fields have one position that's sunny and another that's in the shade [primarily in A, but that can change somewhat in the later innings when the sun gets low]. For me, the wind is what makes it toughest. Warm at times, but too chilly when that wind whips up.

Oh, BTW, I thought the picture of the glove had 3 colors: red, blue/black, and white. The white "lacing" looked to be additional design and not real lacing on the pocked area of the glove.

NFHS: 1-4-1a expressly excludes the color of the lacing from being counted as one of the colors. Can we as umpires ever really know whether or not the lacing is "real" or "decorative"? If it's lacing, I'm not worried about its color.

If it's lacing, I'm not worried about its color.

That is not entirely true it can not be the color of the ball or used to be woven in a patten that looks like the ball.

Rule 1, section 4, a and c

Don't see what is so difficult about understanding the difference of looking like **** as opposed to professional.

Removing a jacket because you are now too hot is not the same as doing it just to show off or be an *******, partner be damned, or as an alternative to wearing inappropriate clothing.

Granted. I intended to say, "If it's lacing, I'm not counting it as one of the two allowable colors."

The difficulty is not in my understanding but your communicating. I'm not really so certain why you are so worked up about this, but I do not comprehend what you are trying to say. To make things clearer, I gave you a simple set of three questions that would allow me to clearly understand your position. If you want to continue try and persuade me of something, you'll have to answer them.
________
Asian Webcams

Mike, I think it was you who took it in that direction. I pointed out that in the set of pictures, the base umpire was wearing a short sleeve shirt, and the plate umpire was wearing a jacket. Why this was, no one knows, but I do think that both were dressed professionally, and both exhibited good mechanics (from what we can gather on still photos). It seems the majority of those on the board agree that this is fine, that dressed "a like" was not influenced by who wears a jacket and who wears a shirt. And everyone will agree that looking sloppy in a shirt and/or jacket is totally unprofessional.

You maintain that if you are cold, you are wearing a jacket--That you will not be cold because some "Cheesehead" wants to flaunt their guns (of course, I'm paraphrasing). That's fine. But Youngump gave you the reverse: why must someone be uncomfortably hot because you are sensitive to lower temperatures? I have been on that side of it, as my partner (who's heritage is, well, lets say in the south Pacific) was cold. And the UIC required (yes, required!) me to also have on a jacket. It was May and at least 65 degrees.

Simple solution: Professional attire has a range of style/approved uniforms that can be appropriately paired together. Case in point: yesterday, I drove from rainy/snow in Happy Valley to Steeltown, USA, where It was 60 and sunny (with a brisk wind). I was on the plate, too hot for either of my jackets, too cool for my short sleeve. But there is one more option: the long sleeve. That was perfect on the plate. However, my partner, who refuses to buy a long sleeve, wore a jacket. Trust me, we both were professionally dressed to the letter. This didn't have anything to do with showing off; it had all to do with comfort. We had a great game . . for 3 1/2 innings . . . until the hail storm :(

And to me it looked like the BU was wearing a sweater. :cool:

Absolutely

To me, that is a problem between you and your UIC(s) :rolleyes:, but if it is overcast or in the shade and when you get to my age, you will be wearing a jacket doing FP. Then again, you are making enough money, why not have two jackets, one windbreaker and one lined for warmth? :confused: Then again, I bet you are wearing a pullover, too, which IMO is just not wearer-friendly in marginal temperatures.

Well, you keep using a word that I just don't believe should be pertinent, style. Pfffft!

I do believe with partners dressing alike, it is part of being UNIFORM. It looks professional and I don't give a damn if it meets anyone's perception of style, that isn't why you are on the field.

There are time when an exception may be necessary. HOWEVER, that is what it is, an exception.

You are talking about a different picture. I'm referring to the accompanying picture with the glove. You are referring to the one embedded. I did not mention the sweater at all (I noticed it, and laughed).

I actually have three jackets: heavy/water repellent; lighter; one with the blue shoulder stripes. All three have half zippers.


There is a difference between "Style" and "Stylish." At one time the Elbeco's were the "Style" (but were far from Stylish). Wearing long sleeve undershirt extending out of short sleeve shirts is Stylish, but isn't a style (or accepted) practice on the ball field.

You only have to meet the sanctioning body's definition of style, but not be a fashionista. Why did ASA change from Elbeco to the pull over? Or change their jacket from full zipper to pull over? Or even the logo on the ball bag? Because they tried to keep up with a current clothing style, some of which is based on material performance. Do you really want to still be wearing that awful shirt?

I'm not sure what this exactly means, so I'll attribute this to either an IPA or the local Dupont plant. :D

Still wear mine occasionally, but always under a jacket doing HS.

I prefer the full-length zipper. Easier to control and adjust as needed.

That is neither stylish, nor acceptable with any uniform, on the field or the street and I am in an industry where uniforms are worn and required to be worn properly. I don't know why people think this should be different from any other uniformed service.

Appearance on the umpire and maintenance. Personally, I had no problem with the Elbeco and will occasionally still wear one proudly, tucked in my pants even back when a flexbelt was needed. Cleaned and most often pressed. The Elbeco is much cooler than the mesh pullover, but looks like **** when the wearer sweats, much like the gray pants.

They didn't.

They just eliminated the graphics.

Compared to what we have now? Absolutely. I would rather have the Mizuno shirt ISF uses, but that ain't gonna happen.


To start, there is no such animal as a real IPA presently on this earth.

But have you every heard about deviating from the mechanics as not being the standard, but the exception...? :rolleyes: