Pitching distance differences

[aimpink]

I've searched for this, but I cannot find if it's been discussed here already. Sorry if this is redundant.

Now that NFHS, PONY, USSSA and Babe Ruth have changed the pitching distance to 43' for some levels, what's the proper thing to do if (when) you arrive at a field with the pitching plate at the incorrect ("old" 40') distance?

Assuming that the home team (or groundskeepers) can't/won't move the pitching plate:

Common sense might indicate that if you and the coaches decide that it's not an issue, you just play the 40'. However, I think that might lead to a lot of heartburn about liability and not following the rules, etc. So, I'm thinking that's a bad idea.

I'm also thinking that you might declare the field unplayable, similar to that when it's too muddy.

Or you draw a line in the dirt? (I've seen this done for some younger 10U 35' games).

But in actual practice, what's the approach?

Thanks!

[RKBUmp]

Under FED regulations, if you find the pitching distance is incorrect, the game is not to be played until the plate is moved to the correct distance.

[derwil]

Make game management change the rubber to 43 feet immediately. If found during the game, it must be changed when found. If it's between pitches or half innings, so be it.

[MNBlue]

This is what the State of Minnesota has ruled:

Softball – must pitch from 43 feet. And there must be a pitching plate. If the plate is not at 43 feet the situation should be corrected as soon as the error is discovered. If the pitching plate cannot be moved, play the game using the plate that is in place, and be sure to file an incident report form immediately after the game.

[Tru_in_Blu]

MNBlue -

That seems to make a lot of sense. I know there are many multi-use fields in my area. Most varsity teams have a dedicated field, but JV & Freshmen might play most anywhere.

We had a tournament last year that was ASA. I had a couple of games on a field that had a PP at 40', but we had 16U games. We couldn't pull up the existing PP because it was anchored in cement. Someone came up w/ one of those temporary PPs and we used it. I was concerned about where the pitchers' would have to stride and if the plate at 40' would be a distraction at best and a hindrance at worst. Both teams' pitchers tried some pitches and they thought it would be OK. Not my preferred solution.

I think we're going to have more issues like this this season. One field could require PPs at 40, 43, 46, and 50 feet.

[dilligaf]

The direction that we have been given by NFHS in California is that the PP must be at 43' or we do not do the game. There is a huge liability issue that was cited. Even if the AD or TD states to go ahead, we are not to do the game until the issue is corrected.

[JEL]

Originally Posted by dilligaf

The direction that we have been given by NFHS in California is that the PP must be at 43' or we do not do the game. There is a huge liability issue that was cited. Even if the AD or TD states to go ahead, we are not to do the game until the issue is corrected.

If this procedure is followed, it won't be long until there is no need to follow it anymore!

[Dutch Alex]

I have trouble with the actions as described in the post's by derwil and MNBlue.
In Holland we play by the ISF/ESF-rules. Any change at the field must be made after completing an inning. This is i.m.h.o. a fair way: As soon as the complete inning is over, correct the field (in this case pitching distance) so no team has any advantage or disadvantage caused by the incorrect field...
Why is it that some other fed.'s correct it as soon as noticed or between half innings. That is asking for trouble.

[robbie]

Originally Posted by Dutch Alex

I have trouble with the actions as described in the post's by derwil and MNBlue.
In Holland we play by the ISF/ESF-rules. Any change at the field must be made after completing an inning. This is i.m.h.o. a fair way: As soon as the complete inning is over, correct the field (in this case pitching distance) so no team has any advantage or disadvantage caused by the incorrect field...
Why is it that some other fed.'s correct it as soon as noticed or between half innings. That is asking for trouble.

"Well, Your Honor - Yes, I knew the distance was supposed to be 40 ft, but I thought we should finish the inning to be fair. I had no idea Sally would take that line drive to the mouth."

[argodad]

Originally Posted by Dutch Alex

I have trouble with the actions as described in the post's by derwil and MNBlue.
In Holland we play by the ISF/ESF-rules. Any change at the field must be made after completing an inning. This is i.m.h.o. a fair way: As soon as the complete inning is over, correct the field (in this case pitching distance) so no team has any advantage or disadvantage caused by the incorrect field...
Why is it that some other fed.'s correct it as soon as noticed or between half innings. That is asking for trouble.

Fair or not, the NFHS rule is to correct it as soon as the error is discovered. Hopefully, you discover it during your field inspection and have it corrected before the game. If not, fix it when discovered.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Dutch Alex

I have trouble with the actions as described in the post's by derwil and MNBlue.
In Holland we play by the ISF/ESF-rules. Any change at the field must be made after completing an inning. This is i.m.h.o. a fair way: As soon as the complete inning is over, correct the field (in this case pitching distance) so no team has any advantage or disadvantage caused by the incorrect field...
Why is it that some other fed.'s correct it as soon as noticed or between half innings. That is asking for trouble.

If fairness and equalizing the competition were the ONLY consideration, then fixing it after a complete inning would be the best answer. But there are the liability considerations, too.

It could be effectively argued that all distances are, at least to some degree, determined to be the optimal distances for safety, as well as to generate maximum competitiveness, and equalize the balance between defense and offense. If you don't know the distance is wrong, you could be, at worst, considered negligent for not knowing when it is your responsibility to check the field and verify it is regulation. But, if you DO know, and choose to do nothing about it, that could be considered gross negligence. It is my understanding that most states' laws prescribe greater damages and possibly punitive damages for gross negligence. I would think there are similar laws in Holland, and other ESF nations.

You could argue that the game rules required you to do nothing at that point; and that would bring the rules body (ISF/ESF) in now as a co-defendent to attempt to convince the jury that perceived fairness was a more important consideration than the safety of the players. I personally doubt that would be a winning argument. I also doubt that you, the umpire, would be absolved because the rules said so; once a jury decides gross negligence, they tend to punish everyone they can.

All the US rules bodies I am affiliated with (ASA, NCAA, and NFHS) incorporate correction "immediately" after detection of wrong pitching distances or base distances into their rules. I believe the concern over safety and resulting liability is the overriding factor.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by robbie

"Well, Your Honor - Yes, I knew the distance was supposed to be 40 ft, but I thought we should finish the inning to be fair. I had no idea Sally would take that line drive to the mouth."

"Yes, your honor, I knew the distance was supposed to be 40 ft. I immediately notified both teams and my partners and continued to play the game under the rule set for which I was assigned."

And,yes, if it were an issue, I would countersue ISF, but then again Alex isn't in the USSA where everyone resolves every issue in the courts.

[Dutch Alex]

Well, I guess Irish is right in this: we have little problems with legal courts and people suing each other. It isn't up to me to discuss the way your legal-system works, it is simply different from what I'm used to have here in Europe.

When it's unsafe to play, caused by the field, everything stops, all over the world. However, a wrong pitching-distance doesn't all-ways mean that it's unsafe -by definition-. So at that point fairness takes over and we simply complete the full inning.
And yes, I (or you, any umpire) can not simply start the game without checking the field! Not even on an Off-Day, it's not-done!

I'm neither in a position to say that your different fed.'s have a stupid rule in this. Again, it seems to be also an outcome of your legal system. I was just curious and wondering about the why. The discussed ruling sounds unfair in my ears...

When ISF and ESF changed the pitching distance a view years ago, I was told it should bring more hits into the field. Pitching was to strong, so batters couldn't hit the ball anymore. When F1 stands on the old 40ft, instead 43 ft, I doubt Sally would take a line drive into the mouth. Simply because Hanna can't hit any pitch delivered from that distance.
I've experienced it works that way, had a <21 game a view years ago. I knew the F1 on defence, she played that time already in our top-league, but was also selected for a <21-team. So a week earlier she was on a rubber 3 ft further away than in that <21 game. I missed the first pitch complete, wasn't aware she played from the junior distance. My mistake, but the batter had no change to hit with that pitcher. Sally is safe; we will not see a judge