Stupid question... strike zone
 

I've got some conflicting information and know you guys would have the answer.

I'm not an ump, just a softball parent.

Regarding the strike zone... I was under the impression (and I think this is how I read the rule) it's a 'box' directly above home plate, from the armpits/numbers to the knees of the batter.

This weekend, someone (who I would trust knowing this... former NAIA coach and current NCAA 'advisor') told me if the batter is forward or back in the box, the PU "mentally" moves the plate so it's even with the batter.

For example, let's say the batter is all the way back in the box (front foot even with the back corner of the plate). A ball crosses the front corner of the plate "knee high", but drops off and hits the back corner of the plate. That's still a 'strike', right? It's the batter's responsibility to position themselves, right?

Does it matter on rule set? I wouldn't think so, but maybe this person is thinking NCAA and my DD plays NSA.

Sorry for the stupid question, but inquiring minds want to know.

Thanks

Strike zone is over the plate, does not matter where in the box the batter stands.

I heard from a respected source years ago that the calling of balls and strikes can be made easier by visualizing a window 2 feet by 2 feet on the plane above the front edge of home plate. The bottom edge of the window would be in line with the middle of the batter's front knee if it were positioned at the front edge of the plate. The inside edge of the window should be 2-1/2 inches off the 'black' of the plate.

A pitch would be a strick if the ball passes through that imaginary window.

College coaches have backed up that philosophy by saying to me that the pitch should be judged as the ball passes the front edge of the plate.

This would eliminate the concern of whether the ball touched any part of the area OVER home plate. Example: soft change-up crossing the front of the plate 'high' but falling into the zone at the back of the plate. Same would go for a rise, drop, or curve ball.

This technique does works for me and I have been using it for years.

I know I will hear some arguements on this, so bring 'em on.

My first argument would be in the definition of 'strike zone'...
Note 'any part of home plate'. So, IMO, it could be a 'ball' on the front edge of the plate, yet a 'strike' 17" (or less) later.

BTW, above definition is from 2011 NSA rulebook.

As you say you are a parent, not an umpire or even a coach, here's a word of advice..

There is they way things are supposed to be and the way they are.
Yes there is a defined strike zone (which FWIW, is different in NCAA than it is in NSA) but since it is judgement, it is going to be seen differently by different umpires.
Allthough that is not the way you are supposed to call it, I have observed calls being made that seem to be consistant with what your friend has told you. That doesn't make it right, it just makes it the way it is.

If you are asking to help your son or daughter, I wouldn't be worried about splitting hairs, rather I'd be suggesting to them to observe the strike zone and adjust accoridingly.

Hugo-

Thanks. I am by no means surprised that different PUs call differently. I just didn't know which was "correct".

Out of curiosity, what's the NCAA strike zone?

For NCAA, the upper limit is the base of the sternum.

I'm not Hugo but here's the answer to your NCAA strile zone question.

From the NCAA Rules Book:

Strike zone. The zone is the area above home plate between the
bottom of the batter’s sternum and the top of her knees when she assumes
her natural batting stance. The top of the ball must be on or within the
horizontal plane, and either side of the ball must be on or within the
vertical plane of the strike zone to be a strike unless the ball touches
the ground before reaching home plate.

You know what I love about this?

Untrained folks for years have been screaming to call the strike zone as it is in the book where the armpits were the lowest common physical attribute that could be seen by the umpire even though umpires were directed to bring the top of the zone down a little bit.

Now, the NCAA changes their rule citing a part of the body that cannot be used as a focal point and all of a sudden, all is good in the NCAA world, even though the umpires' strike zone is relative the same. :cool:

So if I'm reading this right, in NCAA the entire ball needs to be "within the window" as opposed to NSA where "any part of the ball" could hit the strike zone. Do I understand correctly?

3/4 correct :D
correction: 1/4 correct ....
(1/4 was my first typing, but in my rush to give a "cute answer", I misread the rule)

What I am trying to say is that in NCAA, at the top of the strike zone, the entire ball must be in the zone.

"The top of the ball must be on or within the horizontal plane"

I always imagine the zone as a glass box above HP. If the ball hits the glass, strike.

Just in case you were interested:
"In its natural position the inclination of the Sternum is oblique from above, downward and forward. It is slightly convex in front and concave behind; broad above, becoming narrowed at the point where the manubrium joins the body, after which it again widens a little to below the middle of the body, and then narrows to its lower extremity. Its average length in the adult is about 17 cm., and is rather greater in the male than in the female."

Since it certainly can not be seen, I always wondered if I should check each batter before she came up to feel for the bottom.:confused:

But all in all, I like the location for strikes where I think the strenum is....

The entire ball DOES NOT need to be "within the window". A strke could be called if any part of the ball passes through the strike zone.

Sounds like a game of Angry Birds gone bad

Exactly:D

Yesterday, I attemted to glibly add to the conversation, but in my rush to be cute, I made an error.
I since edited it to correct the statement....

A strike could be called, but if the top of the ball is above the horizontal plane of the top of the zone, it's not a strike. Just clarifying.

Well if your going to be that way:

If a strike is called, it IS a strike.....

.....it just wasn't in the strike zone!!!!!:):D:)

However, the yellow (bird) doesn't break the glass :cool:

You must not be touching the screen after you launch him. He is a pretty potent fowl once he gets the boost.

He breaks the wood, so if the strike zone is a wooden frame . . . .

Knees
 

We had an interesting discussion in our high school meeting. The instructor pointed out that the rule book states, Rule 2-56 ART. 3, "The strike zone....................the top of the knees.............." What he said was that the rule says that the ball has be at the top of the KNEES. Plural. Not one knee but it has to be at the top of both knees. So a pitch the is at the top of the front knee but drops and is below the back knee is a ball.

What is your interpretation?

I strongly disagree. "The top of the knees" establishes the (horizontal) bottom of the zone. A ball over any part of the plate that is high enough to touch that plane is a strike. It doesn't have to cross the whole plate. What if she is way back (or forward) in the box. Do you consider the height as it passes her knees, or where it crosses the plate?

Don't agree. Any part of the ball touching any part of the strike zone is a principle that should be followed unless clearly stated otherwise (NCAA entire ball must be at or below the horizontal plane of the bottom of the sternum).

It is my opinion that the intent and meaning in NFHS, including the wording and principle of "between" is "at the top of (either of) the knees", allowing that it a drop might hit the front knee at the front of the plate but not the back knee at the back of the plate, while ALSO allowing that a low rise might be UNDER the front knee at the front of the plate, but rise up to catch the back knee at the back of the plate.

It all boils down to this...What do we get paid for? Outs. What gets you outs? Strikes. Therefore, I call any ball that touches any part of the area above the plate with a max height at the chest and the min height at the knees a strike.

Wow. We need more games when we're discussing fractions of an inch on strike zones.

Good response.

Not to hijack, but an earlier post, for some reason, brought this to mind:

What is the airspeed velocity of a softball-laden swallow? :confused:

OK it’s really simple. If a pitch makes my right arm go up with a fist and makes me sing out my “called strike” call; it’s a strike! Right? :)

As long as it doesnt turn into the dreaded strike-ball.

Had to really expand the definition of strike zone last night. 1 team decent, the other not so much. 40 minutes into the game, and we hadn't finished the 1st inning. Finally finished 2.5 innings on the 15 run mercy rule in 1 hour 45 minutes. Had to start calling box to box shins to chin to get strikes.

Been there, done that...I feel your pain.

Be thankful that you had a 15 after 3 mercy rule in place. Here in AZ, we would have to go 5 innings with a game like this!

In FL we currently have only 10-after-5 for HS. I've got a proposal to add a 15-after-3 rule halfway through the bureaucracy. Maybe next year.

Trust me, after last nights 18-3 in the third inning debacle.. it isnt any less painful. but it was shorter... TG for the LHSAA

I was working a womens' league game. They asked me what the top of my strike zone was. I responded the whole ball below the breast. One of the senior players ask me not to start the game until she got back because she was going to take off her bra. :eek:

So I guess the sternum is a bit more accurate.

I would agree.....if I could see it....the sternum, that is :D