Now Flake ASA Softball happenings...
 

Just wrapped up another fun-filled season of ASA Snow Flake softball and had some quite the interesting occurrences. Can some of you folks please comment on these rulings or lack thereof?

ASA - 6-10' arc: (1) Pitcher 1st presents ball and then 'slowly' and I do mean slowly brings his arm back and follows thru (without any hesitation) and makes the pitch. RULING: Legal since the motion was continuous even thought it was slow. Players also thought that each pitch must contain the 'same' consistent cadence/motion for a consistency pace. I did not see the 'consistent' mention in the ASA rules, so thought this was also legal. (2) Same pitcher at one point during a pitch, dropped his glove during the delivery. I assumed that this was a legal pitch if this was construed as 'un-intentional'. However, once a 2nd occurrence occurred, it could be construed as 'intentional' and ruled as an illegal pitch?

OBS: R1 on 3rd when B/R hits a ground ball to 2nd. F4 throws to F5 who now has R1 off of 3rd in a run-down. As the ball is thrown to each of the fielders to catch R1, F6 is in the base-path of R1 (yet no contact) which makes R1 veer to the right and R1 is then tagged out by F6 on the way back to 3rd base. RULING: Call OBS on F6 and award R1 3rd base since this was where R1 was headed?

Comments and rule references are welcome.

I'm think'n ur good on both calls. Nothing in rules says anything about speed of pitching motion that I've ever heard of..............but, can it be construed as "deception"? Some would say so I'm sure.

Glove falling off......let it go first time but second time it's illegal.....

When rundowns are taught to players the defense stays to the outside so they don't hit the runner with the ball when throwing it back and forth. If "ball-less" defense got in way of runner trying get to base...........obstruction, pure and simple.

I'm with you on all rulings except the one regarding the pitcher dropping his/her glove. I don't know if I would consider the simple act of dropping one's glove to be an intentional act that is meant to distract the batter. Unsafe? Certainly. Distracting? Maybe. I'm on the fence here. Depends on how they did it, and I'd probably have to see it. I don't think I'd call it unless it was quite clearly meant to distract the batter, as the penalty for that rule is quite severe: ejection!

In other words, I'd want to be damn certain that that was his intent.

Otherwise, these rulings were all correct.

And what, pray tell, is the rule regarding deception? :)

Not because of where R1 was headed, but the base R1 would have obtained with no obstruction, ITUJ of course. Apparently no difference in this case, but for other cases and quoting the rule.

The penalty for "deception" is
 

treble damages isn't it?

5 yard penalty, still second down.

If you ruled the dropping of the glove was a deliberate act of unsportsmanlike conduct, it could be called in IP. However, if you do, you must then eject the pitcher.

That would make sense if that is the base R1 would have reached safely had there been no OBS.

Crew - thanks much for the responses and valdiation of the rules. Especially around the OBS description that describes what base R1 would be awarded 'if the OBS did not occur'.

Can anyone please point out the rule for the IP call for the dropped glove which would result in an 'ejection'?

Certainly. It's ASA 6-4-B.

Deception = distraction = IP or unsportsmanlike

So you're saying it's illegal to slowly pitch a ball... in slow pitch? :confused::confused:

And you wonder why people complain about umpires.

"Deception" has absolutely NOTHING to do with this rule. Then again, there is no deception involved. What's the pitcher doing, deceiving the batter by putting the glove where he thinks the ball is going?

Huh? Can't find that in my book.

C'mon guys! Dropping glove 1st time = warning. Don't do it again. Maybe call IP because of distraction/deception attempt. Dropping glove 2nd time after warning............gone!!!

Will you please get rid of the word "deception". It has no place in this rule.

And I'm not sure I consider dropping the glove anything more than stupid on the pitcher's part. The ball is going up, why would the batter be looking at a glove on the ground? Throwing it to the ground, probably; Dropping it, probably not.

I'm kinda looking at deceptive methods to distract

Darn! Fly specks in my pepper!!!!

Please show me where the word "deception" is considered a violation.

I'm not familiar with Slo-Pitch specific rules, but I am fairly familiar with fast pitch rules.

I could be wrong, but I don't recall a mention of the word deception, "deceipt or decieive" as a factor in determining illegal pitch.

Perhaps you are using criteria from another sport that states:

Of course that has nothing to do with Softball.

:)

The reason I don't like this word is because way too many umpires with less than Championship Play training, and even some with, use "deception" as a criteria to "create" rules citing intent.

I've seen umpires award bases because a SS jumped for a line drive over his head and smacked his glove as if the ball was caught. Reasoning: the SS attempted to "deceive" the runner. Same with an RF who missed a bounding ball, but came up with a throwing motion while the RCF backed him up and retrieved the ball. And God help the catcher who stands idle while a throw is on the way so the runner doesn't think there is an imminent play and then tags the runner out.

JMHO

Ok! What would you hang your hat on if you thought the pitcher was trying to distract a batter by dropping/tossing their glove? What if they did it in every critical situation? What if it was over the top blatent?

I understand the word decieve(ing) isn't in the rules but what is going on is that the pitcher is using deceptive methods to try and distract the batter.

Should this be let go?

Dropped, nothing. Thrown, the rule which was previously cited.

After all, there is no requirement to wear a glove and the pitcher is only making themselves vulnerable.